Bus station lacks parking place for those that start and end there.
College Road gets lock jammed because buses have to enter and come
out of the Bus Station unnecessarily.

Huge amounts can be saved in fuel and pollution can be reduced if the
buses that do not start-end at the Station are rerouted around Harrow
Tube Station.

Most Buses coming out onto Station Road need not go to the Station at
all. Some of them getting into Station from Kimberly Road can touch
the Tube Station from Hill Side (Lowlands Road). Those entering from
Station Road and again coming out onto Station Road need not go to the
Station at all.

I got the feeling that tfl and Harrow Council do not wish to make any
change anywhere. They wish to solve the problem with expensive,
unrealistic, 10 years from now strategy. Components of which are, make
one way Station Road section two way, build over-bridge on Harrow Tube
station for which they have no money.

On Feb 9, 9:48*am, Romanise wrote:
Bus station lacks parking place for those that start and end there.
College Road *gets lock jammed because buses have to enter and come
out of the Bus Station unnecessarily.


There seem to be at least three car parks within 5 mins walk of the
bus station. College Road get blocked up because buses have to fight
with cars coming out of said car parks, not because there are too many
buses.

Huge amounts can be saved in fuel and pollution can be reduced if the
buses that do not start-end at the Station are rerouted around Harrow
Tube Station.

Most Buses coming out onto Station Road need not go to the Station at
all. Some of them getting into Station from Kimberly Road can touch
the Tube Station from Hill Side (Lowlands Road). Those entering from
Station Road and again coming out onto Station Road need not go to the
Station at all.


And surely the point of a bus station is that every bus calls there
and so makes changing between routes easy. Harrow bus station is also
in a good place for the shopping centers. Station Road would not be
nearly so convenient, for either Harrow-on-the-Hill station nor most
of the shops

I personally find that Harrow Bus station works quite well with easy
connections to the Metropolitan line.

I got the feeling that tfl and Harrow Council do not wish to make any
change anywhere. They wish to solve the problem with expensive,
unrealistic, 10 years from now strategy. Components of which are, make
one way Station Road section two way, build over-bridge on Harrow Tube
station for which they have no money.

On Feb 9, 11:43 am, Andy wrote:
There seem to be at least three car parks within 5 mins walk of the
bus station. College Road get blocked up because buses have to fight
with cars coming out of said car parks, not because there are too many
buses.

Buses have to be taken out of the Station to park them as far away as
St George's Shopping Mall. At times there are 5 buses are seen parked.
This clearly shows that Station Space is not adequate.
Buses have to enter the Station from Kimberly Road side and no Cars
coming out of or going in 3 car parks come in the way.

And surely the point of a bus station is that every bus calls there
and so makes changing between routes easy.

If buses going one way continue to stop at the Bus Station and those
going in opposite direction can stop on the Hill side of tube station,
the area that is used for Buses on Rail Replacement Service.

No one changing a bus will be inconvenienced.

People coming for shopping from one direction get off at St George's
sto and those coming from opposite direction get off on station road
between Iceland Store and Barclay's Bank. In fact this point is used
for changing buses.

Harrowbus station is also
in a good place for the shopping centers. Station Road would not be
nearly so convenient, for eitherHarrow-on-the-Hill station nor most
of the shops

I personally find thatHarrowBus station works quite well with easy
connections to the Metropolitan line.

Passengers from Hill side, particularly the old people, have to climb
up and down the stairs of tube station to access the Bus Station. With
2nd part of the Bus Station becoming active on the Hill side those
passengers will be saved from unnecessary trouble.

By the way nobody coming to any of the shopping areas get down at Bus
station. Besides St George's Shopping Mall they get down on either on
Green Hill way or on Station Road.

In fact if Ramps are provided for people travelling on tube station to
come out into the Bus Station or in the St. Ann's shopping mall there
will be much freer movement of vehicular traffic on College Road.

I got the feeling that tfl andHarrowCouncil do not wish to make any
change anywhere. They wish to solve the problem with expensive,
unrealistic, 10 years from now strategy. Components of which are, make
one way Station Road section two way, build over-bridge onHarrowTube
station for which they have no money.

On Feb 11, 3:05*pm, Romanise wrote:
On Feb 9, 11:43 am, Andy wrote:

There seem to be at least three car parks within 5 mins walk of the
bus station. College Road get blocked up because buses have to fight
with cars coming out of said car parks, not because there are too many
buses.

Buses have to be taken out of the Station to park them as far away as
St George's Shopping Mall. At times there are 5 buses are seen parked.
This clearly shows that Station Space is not adequate.
Buses have to enter the Station from Kimberly Road side and no Cars
coming out of or going in 3 car parks come in the way.


Cars for the St. Ann's Car Park have to use Kymberley Road to use the
car park. Sure some buses park up in Kymberley Road, were would you
put then if you have split the bus station either side of the railway?

And surely the point of a bus station is that every bus calls there
and so makes changing between routes easy.

If buses going one way continue to stop at the Bus Station and those
going in opposite direction can stop on the Hill side of tube station,
the area that is used for Buses on Rail Replacement Service.

No one changing a bus will be inconvenienced.

People coming for shopping from one direction get off at St George's
sto and those coming from opposite direction get off on station road
between Iceland Store and Barclay's Bank. In fact this point is used
for changing buses.


How do you define directions? Bus routes don't just do West - East in
Harrow, but North - South as well. Five of the current routes goto
Northwick Park hospital and during the day you can see quite a few
people changing onto buses heading in that direction. Many of those
passengers won't want to walk across the bridge at Harrow-on-the-Hill
just because their bus was going in the wrong direction.

Several of the routes (such as the H9/10,H11,H14,114) either don't go
down Greenhill Road and past the stop behind the St. George's Center,
or down Station Road.

Harrowbus station is also
in a good place for the shopping centers. Station Road would not be
nearly so convenient, for eitherHarrow-on-the-Hill station nor most
of the shops

I personally find thatHarrowBus station works quite well with easy
connections to the Metropolitan line.

Passengers from Hill side, particularly the old people, have to climb
up and down the stairs of tube station to access the Bus Station. With
2nd part of the Bus Station becoming active on the Hill side those
passengers will be saved from unnecessary trouble.


Any what of the elderly people who would want to change from a route
on one side of the bus station to one on the other? Harrow-on-the-Hill
station will have step-free access by 2013 (I don't know what the
exact date is) which will make their access easier anyway. Also, if
you have separated the directions of the buses then people from the
Hill side might be able to catch a bus 'on the flat' but will still
have to cross the railway when they get off the bus when they return.

By the way nobody coming to any of the shopping areas get down at Bus
station. Besides St George's Shopping Mall they get down on either on
Green Hill way or on Station Road.


Hmm, amazing the number of people with shopping that you can see at
the Bus station with shopping if it is so inconvenient for the
shopping centers.

In fact if Ramps are provided for people travelling on tube station to
come out into the Bus Station or in the St. Ann's shopping mall there
will be much freer movement of vehicular traffic on College Road.

I got the feeling that tfl andHarrowCouncil do not wish to make any
change anywhere. They wish to solve the problem with expensive,
unrealistic, 10 years from now strategy. Components of which are, make
one way Station Road section two way, build over-bridge onHarrowTube
station for which they have no money.

On Feb 11, 4:16 pm, Andy wrote:

Cars for the St. Ann's Car Park have to use Kymberley Road to use the
car park. Sure some buses park up in Kymberley Road, were would you
put then if you have split the bus station either side of the railway?

Once mostly the buses which start from Harrow Bus Station have to
enter the Bus Station there will be enough place inside the Bus
Station to park them there. 340, H9, H10, H11, H17 and 223 are the
buses. H18 & H19 being at half hour interval normally has no time to
get them parked.

And surely the point of a bus station is that every bus calls there
and so makes changing between routes easy.

If buses going one way continue to stop at the Bus Station and those
going in opposite direction can stop on the Hill side of tube station,
the area that is used for Buses on Rail Replacement Service.

No one changing a bus will be inconvenienced.

People coming for shopping from one direction get off at St George's
sto and those coming from opposite direction get off on station road
between Iceland Store and Barclay's Bank. In fact this point is used
for changing buses.

How do you define directions? Bus routes don't just do West - East inHarrow, but North - South as well. Five of the current routes goto

Northwick Park hospital and during the day you can see quite a few
people changing onto buses heading in that direction. Many of those
passengers won't want to walk across the bridge atHarrow-on-the-Hill
just because their bus was going in the wrong direction.

From which bus would you say a passenger changes into a Hospital bus
at current Harrow Bus Station?


Several of the routes (such as the H9/10,H11,H14,114) either don't go
down Greenhill Road and past the stop behind the St. George's Center,
or down Station Road.

H14 travelling towards Hospital can have a stop where Headstone Rd &
GreenHill way meet. People can be in shopping centre just as fast.

114 bringing passengers for shopping from South Harrow side can
offload them at 2 points on Station Road. Other buses being of Harrow
Station will go in that Station as they are going now.

114, 183, 140 and H14 can go to Harrow station one way. 140 if taken
on to Sheepcote Rd+Gayton Road while going towards Heathrow will not
have to enter tha Bus Station to come out on College Road.

182, 258 and 186 need not go to Harrow Bus Station at all.

Harrowbus station is also
in a good place for the shopping centers. Station Road would not be
nearly so convenient, for eitherHarrow-on-the-Hill station nor most
of the shops

I personally find thatHarrowBus station works quite well with easy
connections to the Metropolitan line.

Passengers from Hill side, particularly the old people, have to climb
up and down the stairs of tube station to access the Bus Station. With
2nd part of the Bus Station becoming active on the Hill side those
passengers will be saved from unnecessary trouble.

Any what of the elderly people who would want to change from a route
on one side of the bus station to one on the other?

Again from which numbered bus to which numbered Bus, please.


Harrow-on-the-Hill
station will have step-free access by 2013 (I don't know what the
exact date is) which will make their access easier anyway.

I am told there is no money for next 10 years.

Also, if
you have separated the directions of the buses then people from the
Hill side might be able to catch a bus 'on the flat' but will still
have to cross the railway when they get off the bus when they return.

For old people, and I am closing onto 70, walking from Iceland to the
Hillside of Tube station is easier than climbing the steps. Besides
coming from Hospital side can easily be made to touch the Hill side of
Tube Station.


By the way nobody coming to any of the shopping areas get down at Bus
station. Besides St George's Shopping Mall they get down on either on
Green Hill way or on Station Road.

Hmm, amazing the number of people with shopping that you can see at
the Bus station with shopping if it is so inconvenient for the
shopping centers.

They can catch all the buses they need either at the Bus Station or on
Station Road once shopping is done.

In fact if Ramps are provided for people travelling on tube station to
come out into the Bus Station or in the St. Ann's shopping mall there
will be much freer movement of vehicular traffic on College Road.

I got the feeling that tfl andHarrowCouncil do not wish to make any
change anywhere. They wish to solve the problem with expensive,
unrealistic, 10 years from now strategy. Components of which are, make
one way Station Road section two way, build over-bridge onHarrowTube
station for which they have no money.

On Feb 11, 4:58*pm, Romanise wrote:
On Feb 11, 4:16 pm, Andy wrote:

Cars for the St. Ann's Car Park have to use Kymberley Road to use the
car park. Sure some buses park up in Kymberley Road, were would you
put then if you have split the bus station either side of the railway?

Once mostly the buses which start from Harrow Bus Station have to
enter the Bus Station there will be enough place inside the Bus
Station to park them there. 340, H9, H10, H11, H17 and 223 are the
buses. H18 & H19 being at half hour interval normally has no time to
get them parked.



And surely the point of a bus station is that every bus calls there
and so makes changing between routes easy.

If buses going one way continue to stop at the Bus Station and those
going in opposite direction can stop on the Hill side of tube station,
the area that is used for Buses on Rail Replacement Service.

No one changing a bus will be inconvenienced.

People coming for shopping from one direction get off at St George's
sto and those coming from opposite direction get off on station road
between Iceland Store and Barclay's Bank. In fact this point is used
for changing buses.

How do you define directions? Bus routes don't just do West - East inHarrow, but North - South as well. Five of the current routes goto
Northwick Park hospital and during the day you can see quite a few
people changing onto buses heading in that direction. Many of those
passengers won't want to walk across the bridge atHarrow-on-the-Hill
just because their bus was going in the wrong direction.

From which bus would you say a passenger changes into a Hospital bus
at current Harrow Bus Station?

Several of the routes (such as the H9/10,H11,H14,114) either don't go
down Greenhill Road and past the stop behind the St. George's Center,
or down Station Road.

H14 *travelling towards Hospital can have a stop where Headstone Rd &
GreenHill way meet. People can be in shopping centre just as fast.

114 bringing passengers for shopping from South Harrow side can
offload them at 2 points on Station Road. Other buses being of Harrow
Station will go in that Station as they are going now.

114, 183, 140 and H14 can go to Harrow station one way. 140 if taken
on to Sheepcote Rd+Gayton Road while going towards Heathrow will not
have to enter tha Bus Station to come out on College Road.

182, 258 and 186 need not go to Harrow Bus Station at all.

Harrowbus station is also
in a good place for the shopping centers. Station Road would not be
nearly so convenient, for eitherHarrow-on-the-Hill station nor most
of the shops

I personally find thatHarrowBus station works quite well with easy
connections to the Metropolitan line.

Passengers from Hill side, particularly the old people, have to climb
up and down the stairs of tube station to access the Bus Station. With
2nd part of the Bus Station becoming active on the Hill side those
passengers will be saved from unnecessary trouble.

Any what of the elderly people who would want to change from a route
on one side of the bus station to one on the other?

Again from which numbered bus to which numbered Bus, please.

Harrow-on-the-Hill
station will have step-free access by 2013 (I don't know what the
exact date is) which will make their access easier anyway.

I am told there is no money for next 10 years.


We are never going to agree on the basics, so I'll leave discussion
about individual problems / solutions to what I have already said.
I'll just say if you want to see real bus congestion take a look at
the area around Tottenham Court Road underground station and under
Center Point. This puts any perceived problems at Harrow Bus station
into context.

The rebuild of Harrow-on-the-Hill station with step-free access is
part of London Undergrounds plans to have a 'Foundation Network' for
accessible stations. See

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/...lity/5966.aspx

and especially the file linked to here

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...Tube_12pt1.pdf

Harrow Council will have nothing to do with funding a step-free
station, as it is TfLs programme.The only influence from the council
would be if they could put their grand plan for the new station in
place before the step-free access program for the current station is
finalised.

Also, if
you have separated the directions of the buses then people from the
Hill side might be able to catch a bus 'on the flat' but will still
have to cross the railway when they get off the bus when they return.

For old people, and I am closing onto 70, walking from Iceland to the
Hillside of Tube station is easier than climbing the steps. Besides
coming from Hospital side can easily be made to touch the Hill side of
Tube Station.

By the way nobody coming to any of the shopping areas get down at Bus
station. Besides St George's Shopping Mall they get down on either on
Green Hill way or on Station Road.

Hmm, amazing the number of people with shopping that you can see at
the Bus station with shopping if it is so inconvenient for the
shopping centers.

They can catch all the buses they need either at the Bus Station or on
Station Road once shopping is done.

In fact if Ramps are provided for people travelling on tube station to
come out into the Bus Station or in the St. Ann's shopping mall there
will be much freer movement of vehicular traffic on College Road.

I got the feeling that tfl andHarrowCouncil do not wish to make any
change anywhere. They wish to solve the problem with expensive,
unrealistic, 10 years from now strategy. Components of which are, make
one way Station Road section two way, build over-bridge onHarrowTube
station for which they have no money.

On Feb 11, 9:08 pm, Andy wrote:

We are never going to agree on the basics, so I'll leave discussion
about individual problems / solutions to what I have already said.
I'll just say if you want to see real bus congestion take a look at
the area around Tottenham Court Road underground station and under
Center Point. This puts any perceived problems at Harrow Bus station
into context.

The rebuild of Harrow-on-the-Hill station with step-free access is
part of London Undergrounds plans to have a 'Foundation Network' for
accessible stations. See

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/...lity/5966.aspx

and especially the file linked to here

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...sible_Tube_12p...

Harrow Council will have nothing to do with funding a step-free
station, as it is TfLs programme.The only influence from the council
would be if they could put their grand plan for the new station in
place before the step-free access program for the current station is
finalised.

I have had to use Buses from Tottenham Court Road underground station
for going on to Tottenham Court Road.

There it is the Car traffic from all 4 sides crossing each other. In
Harrow there are only 2 sides and still Buses have difficulty entering
the bus station and letting out its passengers.

Harrow Council is interested in having practically new Tube Station
Overhead Entry Exit overbridge getting built but for that money is not
coming from TFL for another 10 years.

I hope to be around in 2013. Let us see if it happens by then.

Why is no one interested in easing the situation with practically
nothing to spend.

Looks people who are affected and get affected from time to time have
given up on improving the situation.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:06:11 -0800 (PST), Romanise
wrote:

On Feb 11, 9:08 pm, Andy wrote:

We are never going to agree on the basics, so I'll leave discussion
about individual problems / solutions to what I have already said.
I'll just say if you want to see real bus congestion take a look at
the area around Tottenham Court Road underground station and under
Center Point. This puts any perceived problems at Harrow Bus station
into context.

[snip]
I have had to use Buses from Tottenham Court Road underground station
for going on to Tottenham Court Road.

There it is the Car traffic from all 4 sides crossing each other.

No it is not. Car traffic can only come from Charing Cross Road heading
north. Tottenham Court Road is one way so no traffic can come from that
direction. Oxford St and New Oxford Street are both bus and taxi only.

In
Harrow there are only 2 sides and still Buses have difficulty entering
the bus station and letting out its passengers.

You can keep going on and on and on about Harrow but there is NO way
that TfL would scrap the current bus station and put in place something
that split bus services in two and forced people to make a lengthy and
utterly unnecessary walk between two sides of the tube station. There
would be no business case for such a proposal because of the extra time
taken for buses to use the alternative routes and from worsening
passenger interchange. It would also make interchange from the tube to
buses unduly complicated. TfL's overarching objective is to "save time"
- your idea flies completely in the face of this.

Harrow Council is interested in having practically new Tube Station
Overhead Entry Exit overbridge getting built but for that money is not
coming from TFL for another 10 years.

If Harrow are interested then perhaps they'd like to find the money. Oh
dear - is that the sound of an empty piggy bank I hear?

I hope to be around in 2013. Let us see if it happens by then.

Why is no one interested in easing the situation with practically
nothing to spend.

You seem to be convinced there is a problem when I suspect most people
are perfectly content with the current situation. Your proposal would
cost time and money for no demonstrable benefit. I know you will wish
to carry on arguing your point so why not write to TfL and see what
response you get?

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:06:11 -0800 (PST), Romanise
wrote:

I have had to use Buses from Tottenham Court Road underground station
for going on to Tottenham Court Road.

There it is the Car traffic from all 4 sides crossing each other.

No it is not. Car traffic can only come from Charing Cross Road
heading north. Tottenham Court Road is one way so no traffic can come
from that direction.

.... although I once saw three pedicabs racing each other side-by-side out of
the southern end of Tottenham Court Road, just as the traffic light for
northward traffic had gone green.

Oxford St and New Oxford Street are both bus and taxi only.

Not really. I think cars can turn left from Great Portland Street or
Rathbone Place and proceed eastward through to New Oxford Street, and cars
coming up Charing Cross Road can turn right before Centerpoint and loop
round to turn left into New Oxford Street and pass into Oxford Street, both
routes being allowed at all times of the day.