Thunderbug typed


asdf wrote:
According to a London Lite article I posted about here around 6 months
ago, the charges for touching in then out at the same station a

- Within 15 minutes: no charge
- Over 15 minutes apart: £8

I've never tried it, though.

I have: the charge is £1.50.

I was amongst those evacuated from Kings Cross on the 'booze cruise'
night before the alcohol ban came in, so entered and left the same
station after about 20 minutes without being able to catch a train.

I suspect TfL took a tidy sum that night. Had I not tapped out (all
gates were open and staff directed passengers through the
pushchair/wheelchair gates), no doubt it would've been £4 instead.

Journey History records 4 minutes (much less than 15) for my partner's
entry to Paddington and he still paid £1.50.

Not really worth phoning the helpline though.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In message of Tue, 17 Jun 2008
11:37:03 in uk.transport.london, Helen Deborah Vecht
writes
Thunderbug typed


asdf wrote:
According to a London Lite article I posted about here around 6 months
ago, the charges for touching in then out at the same station a

- Within 15 minutes: no charge
- Over 15 minutes apart: £8

I've never tried it, though.

I have: the charge is £1.50.

I was amongst those evacuated from Kings Cross on the 'booze cruise'
night before the alcohol ban came in, so entered and left the same
station after about 20 minutes without being able to catch a train.

I suspect TfL took a tidy sum that night. Had I not tapped out (all
gates were open and staff directed passengers through the
pushchair/wheelchair gates), no doubt it would've been £4 instead.

Journey History records 4 minutes (much less than 15) for my partner's
entry to Paddington and he still paid £1.50.

Not really worth phoning the helpline though.


I believe the logic is: up to 15 minutes - an in-zone fare; more than 15
- the charges for an unfinished journey and an unstarted journey. I am
unsure about the boundary condition. I have not got very far trying to
persuade TfL that this behaviour needs to be documented.
--
Walter Briscoe

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
Journey History records 4 minutes (much less than 15) for my partner's
entry to Paddington and he still paid £1.50.

Not really worth phoning the helpline though.

I went to the ticket office window at a tube station and asked them to
remove it... agree that small charges are not worth calling the helpline
to reclaim, but I guess it isn't an accident that the loophole remains open.

In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

I believe the logic is: up to 15 minutes - an in-zone fare; more
than 15 - the charges for an unfinished journey and an unstarted
journey. I am unsure about the boundary condition. I have not got
very far trying to persuade TfL that this behaviour needs to be
documented.

Time for a Freedom of Information request then?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jun 17, 1:11 pm, Thunderbug wrote:
to reclaim, but I guess it isn't an accident that the loophole remains open.

You bet it isn't. Anyway the whole Oyster system is just a scam to
screw as much money out of people as possible with the debatable
sweetener of slightly faster entry and exit from stations. Given the
current levels of service on certain lines at the moment (circle,
district, victoria) LU should be paying the passengers to travel on
its 3rd world system.

B2003

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:06:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Jun 17, 1:11 pm, Thunderbug wrote:
to reclaim, but I guess it isn't an accident that the loophole remains open.

You bet it isn't. Anyway the whole Oyster system is just a scam to
screw as much money out of people as possible

Ah, Boltar's back.

On Jun 19, 8:26*am, James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:06:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Jun 17, 1:11 pm, Thunderbug wrote:
to reclaim, but I guess it isn't an accident that the loophole remains open.

You bet it isn't. Anyway the whole Oyster system is just a scam to
screw as much money out of people as possible

Ah, Boltar's back.

There is a point in there, but it's not that the Oyster system is a
scam. The Oyster system is a way of getting people to pay without
being conscious of each transaction, which inevitably increases
revenue (not to mention the interest earned when people store credit
in advance).

The scam is the system of penalty fares used to coerce people into
using Pay As You Go, even if the opportunity is not available to them.

Oh sorry, I forgot that it's actually a system for making life more
lovely and convenient for TfL users. I take it all back.

http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,...331761b,00.htm
quote
Wednesday 18 June 2008, 5:03 PM
Dutch researchers crack London's Oyster card
Posted by David Meyer
Now they've really gone and done it. At the start of the year, some
Dutch researchers managed to crack the Netherlands' travelcard, the OV-
chipkaart. Now, this card uses the same technology - NXP's Mifare - as
Transport for London's Oyster card. When security experts said the
Dutch crack meant the Oyster system should be upgraded or replaced,
TfL told us there were enough additional layers of security to make
the Dutch case irrelevant to London.

No longer. Wouter Teepe and Bart Jacobs, from Radboud University,
today told the Dutch parliament that they'd cracked and cloned
London's Oyster card. They were able to not only take free rides on
the Underground, but even execute a denial-of-service attack on the
gates. Check out a Google translation here of an article, by
Webwereld's Brenno de Winter, on the subject.

We're awaiting comment from TfL, and are also in touch with one of the
researchers. So, expect more on this tomorrow... I get a feeling this
story will roll on and on.
unquote

Anyway the whole Oyster system is just a scam to screw as much money
out of people as possible with the debatable sweetener of slightly faster

I realised breaks of journeys get charged for but on the rail system using
paper tickets it's acceptable to break journeys without extra charge (and
why not?).

Cockfosters to Heathrow is £2 but go out and come back in at Covent Garden
and it's £4.

Sure it's their ride and if you want to use it you have to pay what they
ask - but the cost of carrying you on both journeys is the same (except for
a bit of gate-wear as you exit and re-enter!).

Shame the cost never relates to what you pay

Cheers,
Dave

On Jun 19, 8:57 am, Mwmbwls wrote:
No longer. Wouter Teepe and Bart Jacobs, from Radboud University,
today told the Dutch parliament that they'd cracked and cloned
London's Oyster card. They were able to not only take free rides on
the Underground, but even execute a denial-of-service attack on the
gates. Check out a Google translation here of an article, by
Webwereld's Brenno de Winter, on the subject.

DOS attack on the gates? Hmm , there must be some dodgy software in
the gates because the gate hardware should easily be able to keep up
with any DOS the card hardware could attempt.

Still, if it is cracked I won't be shedding any tears for LUL or TfL.
Serves them bloody right.

B2003