On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:01:24 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

The main issue with the NLL, GOB and "core" ELL is one of platform
length, or lack thereof (though in the case of the GOB route, it's more
a lack of *serviceable* platform length, as a few of the stations still
retain their full length platforms, albeit with most of the length
fenced off).

True, but none of the examples you cite are on the Euston-Watford
line, which is very much a poor relation compared with Merseyrail and
its ilk - a service with which it has many potential similarities.

Are there any actual 2-car platforms on the GOBLIN? I thought they
were all far longer than the trains, hence my criticism of the use of
2-car DMUs when maybe 4 would be more suitable.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:44:13 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:01:24 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

The main issue with the NLL, GOB and "core" ELL is one of platform
length, or lack thereof (though in the case of the GOB route, it's more
a lack of *serviceable* platform length, as a few of the stations still
retain their full length platforms, albeit with most of the length
fenced off).

True, but none of the examples you cite are on the Euston-Watford
line, which is very much a poor relation compared with Merseyrail and
its ilk - a service with which it has many potential similarities.

Are there any actual 2-car platforms on the GOBLIN? I thought they
were all far longer than the trains, hence my criticism of the use of
2-car DMUs when maybe 4 would be more suitable.

From memory (so possibly incorrect!)

Gospel Oak - can certainly take 2 two car units as the peak extra unit
stables there midday.
Upper Holloway - loads of space on existing platform
Crouch Hill - loads of space on existing platform
Harringey Green Lanes - not overly long but could be extended eastwards.
South Tottenham - Barry has discussed this one already.
Blackhorse Road - just over 2 car lengths long but could be extended.
Walthamstow Queens Road - loads of space on existing platform
Leyton Midland Road - loads of space on existing platform
Leytonstone High Road - loads of space on existing platform
Wanstead Park - loads of space on existing platform
Woodgrange Park - loads of space on existing platform
Barking - not 100% certain but I think there's plenty of room.

Where the old platforms were removed or stations moved the replacement
platforms have tended to be much shorter than their predecessors.

--
Paul C

Neil Williams wrote:

Are there any actual 2-car platforms on the GOBLIN? I thought they
were all far longer than the trains, hence my criticism of the use of
2-car DMUs when maybe 4 would be more suitable.

Quail gives the shortest platform as being South Tottenham Eastbound, at
3 coaches. Next shortest are Blackhorse Road (both roads) and South
Tottenham Westbound, at 4 coaches. Longest are Harringay Green Lanes
(both roads) at 11 coaches.

The Rules of the Plan, meanwhile, give the following platform lengths
(number of Class 150/1 vehicles, at 20.06m, in brackets):

Gospel Oak - Bay : 97m (4 vehicles)
Upper Holloway - Both : 124m (6 vehicles)
Crouch Hill - Both : 122m (6 vehicles)
Harringay Green Lanes - Both : 220m (10 vehicles)
South Tottenham - Eastbound : 52m (2 vehicles)
Westbound : 81m (4 vehicles)
Blackhorse Road - Both : 84m (4 vehicles)
Walthamstow Queens Road - Eastbound : 154m (7 vehicles)
Westbound : 181m (9 vehicles)
Leyton Midland Road - Both : 156m (7 vehicles)
Leytonstone High Road - Both : 163m (8 vehicles)
Wanstead Park - Both : 147m (7 vehicles)
Woodgrange Park - Both : 165m (8 vehicles)
Barking - Platform 1 : 183m (9 vehicles)

NB: The above are the *TOTAL* length, and do not necessarily represent
the *OPERATIONAL* length of the platforms in question.

Cheers,

Barry

On 24 Sep, 20:47, Barry Salter wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
Are there any actual 2-car platforms on the GOBLIN? *I thought they
were all far longer than the trains, hence my criticism of the use of
2-car DMUs when maybe 4 would be more suitable.

Quail gives the shortest platform as being South Tottenham Eastbound, at
3 coaches. Next shortest are Blackhorse Road (both roads) and South
Tottenham Westbound, at 4 coaches. Longest are Harringay Green Lanes
(both roads) at 11 coaches.

The Rules of the Plan, meanwhile, give the following platform lengths
(number of Class 150/1 vehicles, at 20.06m, in brackets):

* * * * * * * Gospel Oak - Bay : 97m (4 vehicles)
* * * * * Upper Holloway - Both : 124m (6 vehicles)
* * * * * * *Crouch Hill - Both : 122m (6 vehicles)
* *Harringay Green Lanes - Both : 220m (10 vehicles)
* * * * *South Tottenham - Eastbound : 52m (2 vehicles)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *Westbound : 81m (4 vehicles)
* * * * *Blackhorse Road - Both : 84m (4 vehicles)
Walthamstow Queens Road - Eastbound : 154m (7 vehicles)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *Westbound : 181m (9 vehicles)
* * *Leyton Midland Road - Both : 156m (7 vehicles)
* *Leytonstone High Road - Both : 163m (8 vehicles)
* * * * * *Wanstead Park - Both : 147m (7 vehicles)
* * * * *Woodgrange Park - Both : 165m (8 vehicles)
* * * * * * * * *Barking - Platform 1 : 183m (9 vehicles)

NB: The above are the *TOTAL* length, and do not necessarily represent
the *OPERATIONAL* length of the platforms in question.

Cheers,

Barry

So if I read that correctly, if you could lengthen the eastbound at
South Tottenham by doubling it (and looking at Google Maps shows no
apparent obstacles to extending that much eastwards - not to mention
you could probably get a few metres by going west up closer to the
bridge), you could have a four-car DMU service with little to no
*major* works?

Jamie Thompson wrote:

So if I read that correctly, if you could lengthen the eastbound at
South Tottenham by doubling it (and looking at Google Maps shows no
apparent obstacles to extending that much eastwards - not to mention
you could probably get a few metres by going west up closer to the
bridge), you could have a four-car DMU service with little to no
*major* works?

The best bet for lengthening at South Tottenham would be at the East
end, but even then you haven't got much room to play with before the
junction.

It's been a while since I've been there, but ISTR the Westbound platform
extends right to the bridge over the High Road already, but the
Eastbound doesn't go all that far.

Cheers,

Barry

Barry Salter wrote:

The best bet for lengthening at South Tottenham would be at the East
end, but even then you haven't got much room to play with before the
junction.

Wouldn't staggered platforms work there - extend the eastbound platform at
the east end and the westbound at the west end? It wouldn't matter if they
extended beyond the junctions as the only trains stopping at South Tottenham
are those on the T&H line (in fact services from Copper Mill heading to or
from Seven Sisters can't stop as the up/down crossover is midway along the
platforms).

"Jack Taylor" wrote

Wouldn't staggered platforms work there - extend the eastbound platform at
the east end and the westbound at the west end? It wouldn't matter if they
extended beyond the junctions as the only trains stopping at South
Tottenham
are those on the T&H line (in fact services from Copper Mill heading to or
from Seven Sisters can't stop as the up/down crossover is midway along the
platforms).

There's a sort of bite out of the westbound platform, to allow for the
throw-over when trains use the crossover.

Peter