On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:18:54 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

Of course I have. The layout on the Jubilee, for example, is awful,
with space for one and half people to stand between the end of the
seats and the first obstruction. The C stock has so many doors that
it wouldn't really be possible to have both standing and sitting space
between them.

This is true, though that makes them awful trains to travel in when
there aren't enough seats, because when standing it is impossible not
to be in somebody's way.

I think something like the D stock layout would work best, but instead
of having those side-facing seats make that space a standback on both
sides of the doors. This, if done as 3+2, would give almost as many
seats as a longitudinal arrangement but also a far better space for
standing in without being in people's way. Even as 2+2 with wider
seats it'd give a better balance, IMO. Maybe like SWT have done to
their 455s?

Elsewhere, though, I still take the view that once "Metroland" gets to
see the S-stock and how it compares with the civilised A-stock, they
are *not* going to be impressed, and Chiltern are suddenly going to
get an influx of new passengers. And I'm not convinced the money
wouldn't in the case of the S-stock have been better spent on
completely relaying the track, as it is in an absolutely woeful state
for a major city. (This is one of the things that the Germans tend to
take great pride in).

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sep 24, 7:48*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:18:54 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
Of course I have. *The layout on the Jubilee, for example, is awful,
with space for one and half people to stand between the end of the
seats and the first obstruction. *The C stock has so many doors that
it wouldn't really be possible to have both standing and sitting space
between them.

This is true, though that makes them awful trains to travel in when
there aren't enough seats, because when standing it is impossible not
to be in somebody's way.

I think something like the D stock layout would work best, but instead
of having those side-facing seats make that space a standback on both
sides of the doors. *This, if done as 3+2, would give almost as many
seats as a longitudinal arrangement but also a far better space for
standing in without being in people's way. *Even as 2+2 with wider
seats it'd give a better balance, IMO. *Maybe like SWT have done to
their 455s?

Yes, I think that the SWT 455 refurbishments are another example of
good design, and really show up the lack of thought that went into the
nearly new 376s.

A short section of transverse seating (so no one needs to queue to get
in and out of it) is an efficient way of making room for seated
passengers, because the knees can be at least as close to each other
as they ever could to a standing person, without the person opposite
dangling bags in one's face etc.

MIG wrote in news:051823b7-ea14-4958-bcfa-
:

Yes, I think that the SWT 455 refurbishments are another example of
good design, and really show up the lack of thought that went into the
nearly new 376s.

Hmm, to a point, yes. The 455s still quite often depart from Clapham Jn
and Vauxhall inbound during the morning peak before all those wanting to
get off are able to do so. The main problem with the redesign is the
airline-style seats: if the person in the window seat wants out then the
person in the aisle seat has to get up and move into the aisle, but when
that's full of standing passengers (or passengers queueing to get off),
they can't do so in time.

At CJ in particular, the passengers waiting to board usually start doing so
before those leaving are all out, which only adds to the problem.

A guard said to me that SWT is judged on trains arriving at Waterloo on
time. Passengers complaining don't cost them money.

Peter

--
Peter Campbell Smith ~ London ~ pjcs00 (a) gmail.com

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

Yes, I think that the SWT 455 refurbishments are another example of
good design, and really show up the lack of thought that went into the
nearly new 376s.

The SWT refurbished 455s compare very favourably with the various 317
refurbishments which are pants by comparison.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

Yes, I think that the SWT 455 refurbishments are another example of
good design, and really show up the lack of thought that went into the
nearly new 376s.

The SWT refurbished 455s compare very favourably with the various 317
refurbishments which are pants by comparison.


I can offer no higher praise than to say that they nearly make you
forget you're in a 455. Nearly.

That's some achievement.

Tom