I've noticed that on the sides of the bendys on route 18, the stickers
telling PAYG users to touch in have had the stickers that are usually
on the assault screens placed over them.

This would imply that all Oystercard users on route 18 have to touch
in.
Does anyone know if this is in fact the case?

On Dec 16, 3:13*pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
I've noticed that on the sides of the bendys on route 18, the stickers
telling PAYG users to touch in have had the stickers that are usually
on the assault screens placed over them.

This would imply that all Oystercard users on route 18 have to touch
in.
Does anyone know if this is in fact the case?

According to the letter of the rules, all Oyster users are supposed to
touch in where relevant, even travelcard holders.

In practice, this only applies to PAYG.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 16 Dec, 16:55, John B wrote:

On Dec 16, 3:13 pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

I've noticed that on the sides of the bendys on route 18, the stickers
telling PAYG users to touch in have had the stickers that are usually
on the assault screens placed over them.

This would imply that all Oystercard users on route 18 have to touch
in. Does anyone know if this is in fact the case?

According to the letter of the rules, all Oyster users are supposed to
touch in where relevant, even travelcard holders.

In practice, this only applies to PAYG.


I gathered some evidence about this a while back (after Graeme Wall
pronounced that I was a fare evader when I said I didn't always touch-
in on bendy buses - hard to do with a paper ticket, but also something
that one doesn't need to do with a Travelcards or bus passes loaded on
Oyster) but I never got round to composing and posting it. I'll try
and gather it all together at some point and present it here.

As John B says, under the Oyster card T&Cs it's technically a
requirement - but passenger-facing publicity does not mention this.
Fare inspectors don't bat an eyelid either.

However one thing that's worth bearing in mind is that Oyster-derived
usage data is used by TfL to assess demand and ridership on the bus
network (I read that somewhere in a TfL board paper a while back) - so
perhaps it's worth touching-in anyway just so as to ensure your
journey gets counted.

Mizter T wrote:

However one thing that's worth bearing in mind is that Oyster-derived
usage data is used by TfL to assess demand and ridership on the bus
network (I read that somewhere in a TfL board paper a while back) - so
perhaps it's worth touching-in anyway just so as to ensure your
journey gets counted.

I've got an Annual 1 to 4 Travelcard, and I *always* touch in and out
where appropriate precisely for that reason. It's a valuable source of
travel data, and more accurate than the travelcard diaries they give out
at stations now and again, at least for journeys that involve using some
form of reader.

Cheers,

Barry

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 09:11:43AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

However one thing that's worth bearing in mind is that Oyster-derived
usage data is used by TfL to assess demand and ridership on the bus
network

Ahhh, so *that* explains why TfL don't seem to care about people in
south London - because fewer of us have Oyster cards (instead we have
proper paper travelcards bought at railway stations), we can't be
counted.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

It's my experience that neither users nor customers can articulate
what it is they want, nor can they evaluate it when they see it
-- Alan Cooper

On 17 Dec, 12:29, David Cantrell wrote:

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 09:11:43AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

However one thing that's worth bearing in mind is that Oyster-derived
usage data is used by TfL to assess demand and ridership on the bus
network

Ahhh, so *that* explains why TfL don't seem to care about people in
south London - because fewer of us have Oyster cards (instead we have
proper paper travelcards bought at railway stations), we can't be
counted.


I would think that TfL are well aware of the potential pitfalls on
over-reliance on Oyster derived travel data and thus take this into
account. As Barry Salter said earlier, those with paper season
Travelcards are sometimes asked to complete a travel diary (though
perhaps this is only for those with monthlies or longer) - as he said
sometimes given out at stations and they also sent by post to people
who hold such tickets (the incentive is something like a gift token or
being entered into a prize draw or the like).

Me thinks TfL do care about people in south London, the basic problem
is that rail services south of the Thames are not their
responsibility, though they do have an input into them (and have spent
lots of money on them - lots of station upgrades have been at least
partially financed by TfL money). And of course the old Mayor would
have been quite happy to get his hands on as much of the suburban rail
network south of the river as possible and run it as a London
Overground style service - in particular there were hopes that the
Southern Metro services might get transferred to TfL. That was not to
be, but many of the improvements that the new Southern franchise
promises - in particular more staff at stations and the refurbishment
or modernisation of said stations - were likely the result of heavy
lobbying of DfT Rail by TfL and the then Mayor.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist


I'm curious as to whether that's how you introduce yourself at
parties?

On Dec 17, 3:27*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 17 Dec, 12:29, David Cantrell wrote:

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 09:11:43AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

However one thing that's worth bearing in mind is that Oyster-derived
usage data is used by TfL to assess demand and ridership on the bus
network

Ahhh, so *that* explains why TfL don't seem to care about people in
south London - because fewer of us have Oyster cards (instead we have
proper paper travelcards bought at railway stations), we can't be
counted.

I would think that TfL are well aware of the potential pitfalls on
over-reliance on Oyster derived travel data and thus take this into
account. As Barry Salter said earlier, those with paper season
Travelcards are sometimes asked to complete a travel diary (though
perhaps this is only for those with monthlies or longer) - as he said
sometimes given out at stations and they also sent by post to people
who hold such tickets (the incentive is something like a gift token or
being entered into a prize draw or the like).

Me thinks TfL do care about people in south London, the basic problem
is that rail services south of the Thames are not their
responsibility, though they do have an input into them (and have spent
lots of money on them - lots of station upgrades have been at least
partially financed by TfL money). And of course the old Mayor would
have been quite happy to get his hands on as much of the suburban rail
network south of the river as possible and run it as a London
Overground style service - in particular there were hopes that the
Southern Metro services might get transferred to TfL. That was not to
be, but many of the improvements that the new Southern franchise
promises - in particular more staff at stations and the refurbishment
or modernisation of said stations - were likely the result of heavy
lobbying of DfT Rail by TfL and the then Mayor.

The rail services south of the Thames are not TfL's responsibility,
but the situations in which people from south of the Thames get
punished are TfL's responsibility (and easily mitigated, like
extensions to paper travelcards, but they refuse to make any
accommodation).

Maybe they think that it's a way of putting indirect pressure of the
NR TOCs to comply with their demands.

Trouble is that punishing populations because you don't like the
authorities that they happen to live under doesn't generally result in
them rising up against their own authorities. They are more likely to
resist and despise those who are punishing them (spot the parallel).