In message
,
" writes
On 27 June, 14:34, Mizter T wrote:
Anyway, interesting stuff you're discovering from monitoring the
situation. Would it be completely cynical to suggest that some staff
on the ground might be quite happy to see this experiment fail...

Possibly with good reason. As I understand it the Inner "Circle Line"
trains are supposed to show "Hammersmith" after they arrive at
Aldgate. Thus the poor wretches travelling from say King's Cross to
High Street Kensington will wait in vain for a train showing "Circle
Line" - should one turn up because the screen has not been changed
they'll potentially be conveyed Hammersmithwards under false
pretences. All the makings of a honky-tonk shambles in fact.

At Liverpool Street circle line platforms this morning there was manual
announcement stating that there were no Westbound Circle line services
and for Bayswater (etc) station people should travel on the Circle line
via Tower Hill (just checked and that would add 10 minutes to the usual
journey time).

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

On Jun 27, 11:33*pm, Paul G wrote:

In message
,
" writes

On 27 June, 14:34, Mizter T wrote:
Anyway, interesting stuff you're discovering from monitoring the
situation. Would it be completely cynical to suggest that some staff
on the ground might be quite happy to see this experiment fail...

Possibly with good reason. As I understand it the Inner "Circle Line"
trains are supposed to show "Hammersmith" after they arrive at
Aldgate. Thus the poor wretches travelling from say King's Cross to
High Street Kensington will wait in vain for a train showing "Circle
Line" - should one turn up because the screen has not been changed
they'll potentially be conveyed Hammersmithwards under false
pretences. All the makings of a honky-tonk shambles in fact.

At Liverpool Street circle line platforms this morning there was manual
announcement stating that there were no Westbound Circle line services
and for Bayswater (etc) station people should travel on the Circle line
via Tower Hill (just checked and that would add 10 minutes to the usual
journey time).

For Bayswater itself they should've damn well got on the Central line
to Queensway! I'm thinking this announcement may have been the result
of a little local 'initiative' rather than being dictated from up high.

In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

In message of Wed, 24 Jun 2009
21:46:16 in uk.transport.london, Walter Briscoe
writes
In message

of Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:55:22 in uk.transport.london, Paul Scott
writes
Noticed on TfL weekend travel a hint that a trial run of the Circle to
Hammersmith 'Teacup' service is happening this weekend. Can anyone
confirm this is the case? There are no 'service changes' displayed for
the Circle, they're just saying for Edgware Rd station:

I googled and found it in
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...all-weekend.ht
ml.
How did you navigate there? I can only get to the iconic report in

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...px?offset=week
end

"Saturday 27 and Sunday 28 June, there is no through Circle line
service. Passengers travelling between Bayswater and Baker Street in
either direction will need to change trains at Edgware Road"

On Saturday, I shall be passing through Edgware Road on the H&C.
I will look for anything unusual.

I made 2 journeys in each direction between Baker Street and Royal Oak.
One train in each direction was stopped at the Praed Street Junction;
the eastbound for several minutes without operator PA.

All westbound services at Farringdon were marked as Hammersmith; half
the eastbound services at Royal Oak were marked as Circle Line.

There was no relevant PA at Farringdon. At KXSP, there were many
confused digital PAs telling Circle Line pax for Paddington and beyond
to change at Edgware Road. A Station Supervisor told me that PA came
from Corporate LU. There were occasional manual PAs at other stations.

There were plenty of staff to assist at Edgware Road.

I was in London today for a meeting but had to get back to Cambridge for a
memorial service so couldn't look around.

However, some friends were returning from a holiday in Cardiff. They
arrived at Paddington and saw no signs or relevant announcements (there
were some about HEx they said). So they headed for the Circle/District
platform to get to King's Cross and found that all trains were going to
Edgware Road only. When they got there the destination for the train they
caught (cross-platform as it happens) was Hammersmith. It took them to
King's Cross, though. So no marks for effective signposting for FGW pax!

I think I will now take a dead Oyster to Heathrow!

Pity I couldn't do the same!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On 27 June, 15:32, Mizter T wrote:
On Jun 27, 2:50*pm, " wrote:

On 27 June, 14:34, Mizter T wrote:

Anyway, interesting stuff you're discovering from monitoring the
situation. Would it be completely cynical to suggest that some
staff on the ground might be quite happy to see this experiment
fail...

Possibly with good reason. As I understand it the Inner "Circle
Line" trains are supposed to show "Hammersmith" after they arrive at
Aldgate. Thus the poor wretches travelling from say King's Cross to
High Street Kensington will wait in vain for a train showing "Circle
Line" - should one turn up because the screen has not been changed
they'll potentially be conveyed Hammersmithwards under false
pretences. All the makings of a honky-tonk shambles in fact.

Hmm... I kinda regard the existing Circle line as a bit of a shambles
anyway - I'm open to the idea of the Teacup, if it works and makes the
overall service better. But people are innately conservative and don't
like change.

That's probably true, but I haven't particularly noticed it in these
discussions. People have been trying to come up with new ideas that
will be workable while maintaining journey and interchange options.

But the bottom line is it's a Victorian system built with lots of flat
junctions and inaccessible stations, so nothing is going to be easy.

I would welcome any change from the shambles that pretends to be the
Circle Line. I just don't really understand the explanations for the
problems (lack of depot, lack of terminus: both seem spurious and
irrelevant) and, in particular, I just can't see Edgware Road being
workable under the teacup.

But if it works I'll gladly use the tea to wash down my hat and
rejoice in the increased reliability (luckily, my trips from Putney to
Kings Cross are rare, I am fine with interchanging at Vauxhall and, as
I get older, more stations will probably be accessible and the
problems will go away).

Wait till you have children in buggies! Anyway, admittedly as a less
regular user than some here, it is a long time since I had my journey
disrupted by Circle line problems.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(James Farrar) wrote:

wrote in
:

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On 26 June, 09:11, wrote:
So, as I thought, there is no remotely direct route from
Piccadilly to District platforms, then?

In the next few years you'll gain the option of step-free changes
onto Thameslink at Blackfriars and possibly one day changing onto the
Victoria Line at Victoria.

Still a long way round.

A long way round? If I were going Wimbledon branch to King's Cross,
I'd be quite happy changing at Victoria. In fact, the TfL journey
Planner lists it amongst two approximately-equal options (neither
of which involves HSK).

I can see you've not made the journey with a child in a buggy or with
heavy luggage!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 27 June, 23:59, Mizter T wrote:
On Jun 27, 11:33*pm, Paul G wrote:





In message
,
" writes

On 27 June, 14:34, Mizter T wrote:
Anyway, interesting stuff you're discovering from monitoring the
situation. Would it be completely cynical to suggest that some staff
on the ground might be quite happy to see this experiment fail...

Possibly with good reason. As I understand it the Inner "Circle Line"
trains are supposed to show "Hammersmith" after they arrive at
Aldgate. Thus the poor wretches travelling from say King's Cross to
High Street Kensington will wait in vain for a train showing "Circle
Line" - should one turn up because the screen has not been changed
they'll potentially be conveyed Hammersmithwards under false
pretences. All the makings of a honky-tonk shambles in fact.

At Liverpool Street circle line platforms this morning there was manual
announcement stating that there were no Westbound Circle line services
and for Bayswater (etc) station people should travel on the Circle line
via Tower Hill (just checked and that would add 10 minutes to the usual
journey time).

For Bayswater itself they should've damn well got on the Central line
to Queensway! I'm thinking this announcement may have been the result
of a little local 'initiative' rather than being dictated from up high.-

Or anywhere except Tower Hill. For any other Circle destination
anticlockwise of Paddington, one would better off starting on the
Central.

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On 27 June, 23:59, Mizter T wrote:
On Jun 27, 11:33*pm, Paul G wrote:

In message
,
" writes

On 27 June, 14:34, Mizter T wrote:
Anyway, interesting stuff you're discovering from monitoring the
situation. Would it be completely cynical to suggest that some
staff on the ground might be quite happy to see this experiment
fail...

Possibly with good reason. As I understand it the Inner "Circle
Line" trains are supposed to show "Hammersmith" after they
arrive at Aldgate. Thus the poor wretches travelling from say
King's Cross to High Street Kensington will wait in vain for a
train showing "Circle Line" - should one turn up because the
screen has not been changed they'll potentially be conveyed
Hammersmithwards under false pretences. All the makings of a
honky-tonk shambles in fact.

At Liverpool Street circle line platforms this morning there was
manual announcement stating that there were no Westbound Circle
line services and for Bayswater (etc) station people should
travel on the Circle line via Tower Hill (just checked and that
would add 10 minutes to the usual journey time).

For Bayswater itself they should've damn well got on the Central line
to Queensway! I'm thinking this announcement may have been the result
of a little local 'initiative' rather than being dictated from up
high.-

Or anywhere except Tower Hill. For any other Circle destination
anticlockwise of Paddington, one would better off starting on the
Central.

And changing via the street at Bank/Monument?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 28 June, 10:05, wrote:
In article
,





(MIG) wrote:
On 27 June, 23:59, Mizter T wrote:
On Jun 27, 11:33*pm, Paul G wrote:

In message
,
" writes

On 27 June, 14:34, Mizter T wrote:
Anyway, interesting stuff you're discovering from monitoring the
situation. Would it be completely cynical to suggest that some
staff on the ground might be quite happy to see this experiment
fail...

Possibly with good reason. As I understand it the Inner "Circle
Line" trains are supposed to show "Hammersmith" after they
arrive at Aldgate. Thus the poor wretches travelling from say
King's Cross to High Street Kensington will wait in vain for a
train showing "Circle Line" - should one turn up because the
screen has not been changed they'll potentially be conveyed
Hammersmithwards under false pretences. All the makings of a
honky-tonk shambles in fact.

At Liverpool Street circle line platforms this morning there was
manual announcement stating that there were no Westbound Circle
line services and for Bayswater (etc) station people should
travel on the Circle line via Tower Hill (just checked and that
would add 10 minutes to the usual journey time).

For Bayswater itself they should've damn well got on the Central line
to Queensway! I'm thinking this announcement may have been the result
of a little local 'initiative' rather than being dictated from up
high.-

Or anywhere except Tower Hill. *For any other Circle destination
anticlockwise of Paddington, one would better off starting on the
Central.

And changing via the street at Bank/Monument?

Yes (well, Cannon Street anyway), when you consider waiting for a
mythical Circle and standing several minutes at Aldgate and crawling
all the way, and that fact that there's a frequent District service to
wherever I'd be going from Cannon Street. (Other options west of
Embankment, eg Victoria, Piccadilly.)

In real life, I walk from Liverpool Street to Cannon Street, because
I'd usually be heading for Southeastern, but I can't see me relying on
the Circle unless very laden.

In message of Sat, 27
Jun 2009 18:27:11 in uk.transport.london,
writes
In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

[snip]

I think I will now take a dead Oyster to Heathrow!

Pity I couldn't do the same!


http://wap.tfl.gov.uk/planner showed a 1537 Paddington departure I
would have missed because the H&C was unusually slow, but which turned
out to be at 1540 and I caught it. I sat in a packed Quiet coach and
silenced 2 mobile phone users. My return about 1700 was in a 4 coach
Connect set which had no Quiet coach, but did have a toilet, and
provided an Express service. My waving a stopped Oyster card and an
Oyster wallet - containing a working Oyster - at Hex staff satisfied
their needs to check my ticket. Today, the Journey Planner shows
Moorgate to Heathrow 1,2,3 taking 40 minutes including 5 minutes to
transfer at Paddington. Who needs Crossrail?
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...language=en&se
ssionID=0&ptOptionsActive=1&type_origin=stop&name_ origin=MOORGATE&type_d
estination=stop&name_destination=HEATHROW AIRPORT
CENTRAL&itdDate=20090628


My experience on Saturday, 27/06/2009 suggests the need for work on the
Teacup. I was on 6 trains traversing Praed Street junction (between
Paddington (H&C) and Edgware Road). 3 stopped on the approaches to the
junction: for a few seconds westbound; for several minutes eastbound and
for a minute eastbound. It was poor there was no operator PA for the
long delays. Unless Praed Street Junction can carry traffic without
regular congestion, I don't see it working. Still, it was the first
trial! I wish it had been properly publicised and hope the results will
be publicly reported. I may try it again next Saturday.

Earlier, I reported "... plenty of staff to assist at Edgware Road".
That was true about 1100; none was evident at 1740.

P.S. There was an "eggcup" service on the Piccadilly at Heathrow.
Trains did Hatton Cross; Heathrow Terminal 4 - platform display showed
"Not in Service"; Heathrow Terminals 1,2,3 - still "Not in Service";
wait without comforting PA for about 10 minutes while operator walked to
back of train; "reverse" to Heathrow Terminal 5; continue (I assume not
in customer service) to London-bound platform; wait for about 10 minutes
more without any indication of departure time; proceed to Heathrow
Terminals 1,2,3; wait some more minutes; continue - I assume normally -
to Northfields. (No service this weekend between Hammersmith and (Ealing
Common or Northfields).
--
Walter Briscoe

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On 28 June, 10:05, wrote:
In article
,
(MIG) wrote:
On 27 June, 23:59, Mizter T wrote:
On Jun 27, 11:33*pm, Paul G wrote:

In message
,
" writes

On 27 June, 14:34, Mizter T wrote:
Anyway, interesting stuff you're discovering from monitoring
the situation. Would it be completely cynical to suggest
that some staff on the ground might be quite happy to see
this experiment fail...

Possibly with good reason. As I understand it the Inner "Circle
Line" trains are supposed to show "Hammersmith" after they
arrive at Aldgate. Thus the poor wretches travelling from say
King's Cross to High Street Kensington will wait in vain for a
train showing "Circle Line" - should one turn up because the
screen has not been changed they'll potentially be conveyed
Hammersmithwards under false pretences. All the makings of a
honky-tonk shambles in fact.

At Liverpool Street circle line platforms this morning there was
manual announcement stating that there were no Westbound Circle
line services and for Bayswater (etc) station people should
travel on the Circle line via Tower Hill (just checked and that
would add 10 minutes to the usual journey time).

For Bayswater itself they should've damn well got on the Central
line to Queensway! I'm thinking this announcement may have been
the result of a little local 'initiative' rather than being
dictated from up high.-

Or anywhere except Tower Hill. *For any other Circle destination
anticlockwise of Paddington, one would better off starting on the
Central.

And changing via the street at Bank/Monument?

Yes (well, Cannon Street anyway), when you consider waiting for a
mythical Circle and standing several minutes at Aldgate and crawling
all the way, and that fact that there's a frequent District service to
wherever I'd be going from Cannon Street. (Other options west of
Embankment, eg Victoria, Piccadilly.)

In real life, I walk from Liverpool Street to Cannon Street, because
I'd usually be heading for Southeastern, but I can't see me relying on
the Circle unless very laden.

I just don't understand this huge down on the Circle. I can't remember
when it last let me down.

By the way, isn't Cannon Street closed at weekends?

--
Colin Rosenstiel