On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:01:31 +0100
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
They don't self steer, they follow a curve. Simple geometry which even
cyclists could understand if they bothered to try. Also the cut in on
a bendy bus rear section going around a corner is a shed load less than
on an HGV.

Are you being rude and patronising just for effect? I used to park

So which part of "they follow a curve", "simple geometry" and "cut in less than
an HGV" is wrong then?

36ft rigid trucks in a car storage yard, reversing down a lane with
less than 3ft either side and brand new unregistered Jaguars one side

Bully for you.

And?

and brand new unregistered Porsches the other. I am pretty good at
knowing the handling and manoeuvring characteristics of various
vehicles. You should watch some time the back end of a bendy bus when
the driver changes lanes: it swings in remarkably sharply, and because

What , suddenly the laws of physics change and it doesn't follow the
expected curve?

the thing is so long your options for dealing with it are pretty much
limited to braking sharply. This is simply not the case for most

Or you could see that its coming and not get yourself into an awkward
situation in the first place. But hey, that would just be common sense,
something cyclists don't seem to be heavily endowed with...

B2003

In message , at 10:14:55 on
Wed, 29 Jul 2009, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
remarked:
And if you think London
cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time!

Amsterdam's the worst I've encountered. The cyclists plough through
anything and everything regardless. Being a pedestrian is fraught with
danger! And more so because cycles claim absolute priority at junctions
on shared pathways.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:14:55 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:52:00 +0100, Marc
wrote:

No it's not difficult at all!

Van drivers
Lorry drivers
Bus drivers
Taxi drivers
Private hire drivers
Postmen driving vans
Police drivers

I have witnessed all of the above show "scant regard for the highway
code, and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians."

Frankly you can include all road users in there, even the pedestrians
themselves. I don't know of any group of road users which is
characterised by obedience to all the rules. And if you think London
cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time!


Funny, because on a recent trip to Denmark I drove my hire car
extensively in and around Copenhagen, and found that the Danish
cyclists were remarkably well-disciplined. Certainly nothing like the
over-assertive and arrogantly rule-breaking cyclists that make London
driving so chaotic and stressful.

writes:

As a regular cyclist in London who also avoids bendybuses as much as I can
I have to say I wouldn't cycle round Hyde Park Corner unless I absolutely
had to. Multi-lane road layouts like that don't need bendybuses to make
them lethal for cyclists.

Do yuo have accident stats for that, or is it personal perception? I
have no trouble with that junction, and it's definitely quicker going
around it with the other traffic than it is to wait for the
cycle/ped/horse crossing through the centre.


-dan

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:00:56 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

You bloody what? When you say 'Continental', is the continent in question
North America, or have you just lost your marbles? Or, perhaps, never been
to a European city?

No, you're right, I've never been to a European city. Apart from
Brussels. And Amsterdam. And Antwerp, Duffel, Mechelen, den Bosch,
Charleroi, Leuven, Köln, Dusseldorf, Paris, Copenhagen, Stockholm,
Madrid, Milan and a few others I can't remember off the top of my
head.

I'm sure there are mediaeval towns in Europe with narrow, winding
streets. I don't know how many of these use bendy buses. I do know
that the squabble over property rights after the fire more or less put
the kibosh on widening the road in London more than a modest amount,
and this is acknowledged by Buchanan as a problem in London
particularly.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:28:01 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

So which part of "they follow a curve", "simple geometry" and "cut in less than
an HGV" is wrong then?

The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving
in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries.
Plus a Class 1 driver tends to be more aware of that in the first
place and not drive as if the vehicle is only as long as the front
half.
the thing is so long your options for dealing with it are pretty much
limited to braking sharply. This is simply not the case for most

Or you could see that its coming and not get yourself into an awkward
situation in the first place. But hey, that would just be common sense,
something cyclists don't seem to be heavily endowed with...

For values of "see it coming" that require rear-facing eyes and values
of "awkward position" that include riding along a road minding your
own business.

But hey, I can see that you're not interested in acknowledging any
possible problems with bendy buses. I think that was the problem with
the woman from transport whatnot, too: if you determinedly write off
all criticism as being invalid, then of course you will see no valid
criticism.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:58:25 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Funny, because on a recent trip to Denmark I drove my hire car
extensively in and around Copenhagen, and found that the Danish
cyclists were remarkably well-disciplined. Certainly nothing like the
over-assertive and arrogantly rule-breaking cyclists that make London
driving so chaotic and stressful.

You obviously drive in a different London to the one I work in. London
driving is chaotic and stressful mainly because of motor traffic
(especially scooters). Cyclists are a non-issue, they are generally
off and out of the way long before the motor gridlock eases enough to
permit of another six feet of forward movement. I learned to drive in
London, round Shepherd's Bush.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:58:25 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Funny, because on a recent trip to Denmark I drove my hire car
extensively in and around Copenhagen, and found that the Danish
cyclists were remarkably well-disciplined. Certainly nothing like
the over-assertive and arrogantly rule-breaking cyclists that make
London driving so chaotic and stressful.

You obviously drive in a different London to the one I work in. London
driving is chaotic and stressful mainly because of motor traffic
(especially scooters). Cyclists are a non-issue, they are generally
off and out of the way long before the motor gridlock eases enough to
permit of another six feet of forward movement. I learned to drive in
London, round Shepherd's Bush.

On the thankfully rare occasiosn that I've driven in London recently those
on two wheels are simply not an issue. The only road users who cause
problems for others are those who are not taking notice of what's going on
around them, and that's not peculiar to London.

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:52:28 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving
in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries.


Rubbish. The steering is arranged to reduce cut in. In other words,
to make it cut in far less sharply than an articulated lorry.

You seem to have a grave misunderstanding of the dynamics of a bendy
bus. The fact that it hardly cuts in compared to an articulated lorry
should make it far easier to deal with. Not for you, obviously. ;-)

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:55:01 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:58:25 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Funny, because on a recent trip to Denmark I drove my hire car
extensively in and around Copenhagen, and found that the Danish
cyclists were remarkably well-disciplined. Certainly nothing like the
over-assertive and arrogantly rule-breaking cyclists that make London
driving so chaotic and stressful.

You obviously drive in a different London to the one I work in.


I think you live on a different planet to the rest of us.