On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, bod43 wrote:

The aircraft industry and the HSE have recognised for decades that
routine unsafe operation results in routine deaths, with a bit of luck
the HSE will turn their attention further towards road deaths and
injuries while "at work" in the near future.

That would be nice. Is there any reason to think the chance of this
happening is greater than 0%?

tom

--
I had no idea it was going to end in such tragedy

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

The great joy of London is that it's a human-scale city, you can walk
from St Paul's the the National Gallery, wander round for a couple of
hours then walk on to the West End for a show. Bendy buses are out of
scale, designed for a Continental model which Wren, Hooke and others
failed to have applied to London after the fire.

You bloody what? When you say 'Continental', is the continent in question
North America, or have you just lost your marbles? Or, perhaps, never been
to a European city?

tom

--
I had no idea it was going to end in such tragedy

On Jul 28, 4:44*pm, wrote:
So you can't see why an 18m long vehicle doing this in front of you is
more of a problem than a 9m long vehicle? *Really? *In this case the
bus pulled onto the roundabout and immediately had to stop for a
traffic light, blocking my route to the exit. *A standard length bus
would simply not have been a problem.

But you can see how long the bus is, why don't you take account of that?
Much as though you would probably prefer otherwise, in a head to head with
a bus a cyclist isn't going to win so why not just accept that fact and
stop complaining when buses get in your way. You can scoot around most
obstacles, buses can't.

I don't have much option when the bus overtakes me or pulls out in
front of me, which is the major source of the problem. I also don't
have any control over whether the driver chooses to pull away when I
am part way past, although I never start to pass a bus that is
indicating.

If you want to use a slower and more expensive mode (and take part in
the great virus incubation experiment while you do so) then that is
your choice :-)

OTOH theres little chance of me being run over.

Obviously we use different roads - the people crossing the road at
Cannon Street seem to be courting just that )

characteristics - the tail of a bendy bus moves in *much* faster than
the trailer of an artic. *Bendy buses are far and away the longest

So what? When you encounter a long vehicle for the first time I can understand
your concern , but since you deal with them every day whats the problem?
If you can't handle the vehicles on the road don't go on it.

So you'd be happy with introducing, say, roadtrains into the UK since
people would soon get used to them? It doesn't work that way. There
are specific characteristics of bendy buses which cause specific
problems in specific circumstances, and the buses appear to have been
introduced without thought to these problems, which is one reason
there is pressure to remove them from the centre of London. Another
reason is foolish nostalgia, of course, but that does not nullify the
tangible problems they cause.

I think there are credible reasons for removing them from some
routes. *I am not the only one to think this. *Which indicates to me

Some routes yes, where they simply don't fit. But not to get rid of them
altogether.

I think that's what I said.
--
Guy

In article
,
(Just zis Guy, you know?) wrote:

On Jul 28, 12:48*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:08:42 -0700 (PDT)
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

I have never seen a bendy bus on Victoria Embankment. *I have seen
one around London Wall. *I do not ride along Oxford Street at all,
it is impassable. *I did see a bendy bus today as I was riding round
Hyde Park Corner - hard to avoid seeing it in fact as it pulled onto
the roundabout straight into my path. *And with 18m of bus that left
no option at all but to stop in the middle of a busy roundabout.

So let me get this straight - you didn't see an 18m bus coming until
it was almost on top of you and then (surprise!) it went to pass you?

Wrong. I was cycling round the roundabout, the bus driver entered the
roundabout in conflict with traffic already on the roundabout, he was
in the wrong not me.

I'm sure they are fine in their place, but central London is not it.

Perhaps its not your place either as it appears you have tunnel
vision.

See above: your base premise is in error. Do you cycle much in
central London? I'm not the only cyclist to find bendy buses to be
disproportionately problematic.

As a regular cyclist in London who also avoids bendybuses as much as I can
I have to say I wouldn't cycle round Hyde Park Corner unless I absolutely
had to. Multi-lane road layouts like that don't need bendybuses to make
them lethal for cyclists.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009, Lucas wrote:

That's certainly what your candidate of choice seems to believe.

(more seriously, it probably is true that although the bendy 25 is a
very good bus for Whitechapel Road, it's less good for outer parts of
Newham. Similarly, the 29's bendy capacity is needed between Warren
Street and Manor House, but again a decker with more seats and less
total capacity would be better once you get to Wood Green.)

The 29 is awfully busy along the whole route I feel, even after Manor
House it stays incredibly busy; and gets busier even because of the
big gap between Manor House and Turnpike Lane tube stations that is
Harringay.
The problem is simply Green Lanes itself which is ridiculously
congested and always the slowest part of the route, but I can't think
of much of an alternative, given that the only parallel road is also
quite busy (Wightman Rd)

Fit them with amphibious gear and steam up the New River.

tom

--
There's no future.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, James Farrar wrote:

Offramp wrote in news:603ac8ce-e923-4513-acbe-
:

On 24 July, 23:41, Richard

I feel unusually annoyed about this... They are some of the best buses
ever to be used in London or anywhere else, in my controversial
opinion.

I agree entirely. I think it is odd and very wrong that one man's
fatwa could get rid of them.

He's the Mayor; we elected him.

I bloody well didn't.

Axe Greater London, i say. Let's have a mayor of London elected by people
who live in London, not some transcluded home counties buffoons who mostly
still insist that they live in 'Metropolitan Kent' or some such nonsense.

Er, ObTransport: trains! Aren't they great?

tom

--
There's no future.

Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT), "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:
Do you cycle much in
central London? I'm not the only cyclist to find bendy buses to be
disproportionately problematic.


I'm sure I'm not the only London road user to find cyclists to be
disproportionately problematic.

It is difficult to imagine a group of road users who are more
anti-social, showing, as so many do, scant regard for the Highway Code
and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians.
No it's not difficult at all!

Van drivers
Lorry drivers
Bus drivers
Taxi drivers
Private hire drivers
Postmen driving vans
Police drivers

I have witnessed all of the above show "scant regard for the highway
code, and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians."

This afternoon I drove 3 miles on B and A roads then 3 miles on A dual
carriage way then X miles on the motorway and then 4 miles on A and B roads.

I saw....

at least 2 vans ( that I can remember) parked on pavements.
1 lorry mount a kerb a corner
1 bus splash pedestrians
1 taxi driver stopping on the zigzags of a zebra crossing
1 Private hire vehicle turning right at a "Buses only" right turn rather
then going around the roundabout.
1 post man parken on a brow of hill
1 police car in a yellow box junction.

Want a score tomorrow?

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Bruce wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT), "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

Do you cycle much in central London? I'm not the only cyclist to find
bendy buses to be disproportionately problematic.

I'm sure I'm not the only London road user to find cyclists to be
disproportionately problematic.

It is difficult to imagine a group of road users who are more
anti-social, showing, as so many do, scant regard for the Highway Code
and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians.

I'd be veryr interested to hear why you don't consider cabbies to be
road users.


Outside of London I consider them barely human.

Marc writes:

Bruce wrote:
It is difficult to imagine a group of road users who are more
anti-social, showing, as so many do, scant regard for the Highway Code
and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians.
No it's not difficult at all!

Van drivers
Lorry drivers
Bus drivers
Taxi drivers
Private hire drivers
Postmen driving vans
Police drivers

and pretty much anyone at all on the A10 between Kingsland and the North
Circ.

-dan

Marc wrote:
Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT), "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:
Do you cycle much in
central London? I'm not the only cyclist to find bendy buses to be
disproportionately problematic.


I'm sure I'm not the only London road user to find cyclists to be
disproportionately problematic.

It is difficult to imagine a group of road users who are more
anti-social, showing, as so many do, scant regard for the Highway Code
and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians.
No it's not difficult at all!

Van drivers
Lorry drivers
Bus drivers
Taxi drivers
Private hire drivers
Postmen driving vans
Police drivers

I have witnessed all of the above show "scant regard for the highway
code, and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians."

This afternoon I drove 3 miles on B and A roads then 3 miles on A dual
carriage way then X miles on the motorway and then 4 miles on A and B
roads.

I saw....

at least 2 vans ( that I can remember) parked on pavements.
1 lorry mount a kerb a corner
1 bus splash pedestrians
1 taxi driver stopping on the zigzags of a zebra crossing
1 Private hire vehicle turning right at a "Buses only" right turn rather
then going around the roundabout.
1 post man parken on a brow of hill
1 police car in a yellow box junction.

Want a score tomorrow?
Taxi driver outside my house sounding his horn whilst stationary and no
other road user in sight....