Matthew Dickinson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:57:46 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 21:13:36
on Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
The fundamental reason is that the card processors insist that the
inital setup transaction is processed in the same way as the ongoing
transactions (that is, as a Customer Not Present transaction using
CVV and address checking), and it isn't practical to carry out this
type of transaction at a ticket office.

So why not at a ticket machine, if not the counter itself. Or does
that fail the "customer not present" test because they have a PIN
pad?

It's still regarded as a Customer Present transaction, and AVS & CVV
checking is even less practical at a ticket machine.

When I got my Oyster 3 years ago, there was a single credit card transaction
for the card and the auto top-up, several days before I had to load the
facility on to the Oyster at my local tube station, so I don't think your
reason can be true. It just seemed to be a limitation of the way the system
was set up.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Nov 25, 10:08*pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:57:46 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 21:13:36 on
Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
The fundamental reason is that the card processors insist that the
inital setup transaction is processed in the same way as the ongoing
transactions (that is, as a Customer Not Present transaction using CVV
and address checking), and it isn't practical to carry out this type
of transaction at a ticket office.

So why not at a ticket machine, if not the counter itself. Or does that
fail the "customer not present" test because they have a PIN pad?

It's still regarded as a Customer Present transaction, and AVS & CVV
checking is even less practical at a ticket machine.

Would a NR barrier or DLR style fixed pad be both sufficiently online
and sufficiently customer not present?

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Matthew Dickinson wrote:

This is, of course, a really good question, but it's one that i suspect
that nobody on this group can actually answer. Is there a technical
reason why it's hard to make ticket machines or ticket office equipment
capable of activating auto top-up? Something to do with the software in
it, or the kind of network connection it has? If so, that would be your
answer. If not, then i can't think of a good reason. But without
knowing about the technical details of the machinery involved, we can't
answer it. I don't know about that, and i assume from the fact that
we're having this discussion that none of the other participants do
either!

There is someone on this group who's posted some more insider stuff about
oyster before - who was that? Does he have any ideas?

The fundamental reason is that the card processors insist that the
inital setup transaction is processed in the same way as the ongoing
transactions (that is, as a Customer Not Present transaction using CVV
and address checking), and it isn't practical to carry out this type of
transaction at a ticket office.

But there's no need to - that's not what we're talking about. The idea is
that you could do the transaction online, and then pick up the activation
at the station. No transaction, in the credit card sense, would take place
there.

tom

--
Mpreg is short for Male Impregnation and I cannot get enough. -- D

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, solar penguin wrote:

Like I keep saying, Oyster is designed primarily for tube users,
and is inconvenient for the rest of us.

It's designed primarily for TfL network users. The way the system
works means that activation needs access to fixed hardware, so not
buses. Fixed hardware is attached to railway stations. If TfL
doesn't run the railway stations in your part of town, that's
hardly their fault.

Well, it is their fault actually, because the Oyster system is touted as
for all of London, not just the bits (somewhat geographically
unbalanced) served by the tube network. It's an old Ken bit of
shortsightedness and Sir Herbert Walker legacy.

It's pretty specifically a TfL product. TfL would like to embrace the
whole of London, and like to pretend they do, but in terms of fixed
infrastructure, they currently don't.

I'm assuming that when the ToCs join the big happy oyster family, they'll
also be able to handle activations. Is that the case? Can you pick up an
activation at one of the NR-only stations that accepts PAYG?

tom

--
Mpreg is short for Male Impregnation and I cannot get enough. -- D

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
08:47:20 on Tue, 25 Nov 2008, remarked:

Point missed error. A taxi from Paddington to Putney plus a HEx fare
will quite possibly be more than a taxi fare from Heathrow to
Putney.

Not at all. Putney's in the same one-size-not-fitting-all as
Windsor.

Up to a point, Lord Copper. Putney is at least the same side of
Heathrow as Paddington, unlike Windsor.

But we all know that going to Putney via Paddington isn't very
sensible.

It's not that obviously insensible. It would be the quickest route by
rail, for example.

So if he's not seeing his mother, the business meeting is at the
airport?

No, he's usually in transit to or from the Middle East, or most
recently India, on his way from or back to the USA. He gives
lectures or attends academic conferences.

So the employer is happy to pay for a ticket with a stopover, but
he's not happy to pay the tube fare to Putney??

I think the cheapest fares include the stopover.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(David of Broadway) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(David of Broadway) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:06:10 -0600,
wrote:

Online top up really is a pain, especially for small amounts.
But it's pretty well the only option if you live in the USA.
Can't you just obtain a card and top it up at Heathrow station?
Once you've got the hang of Oyster, probably. But explaining it
to my brother wasn't trivial and I've not started on my
sister-in-law. They don't really do public transport in Columbus.
Then the whole system is likely confusing. But for those who do do
public transport, manually adding value to a card is found in many
more cities than automatic top-up.

Then there are the (rare) trips not entering the UK through
Heathrow.
For which Oyster is useless until arrival in London proper. Except
for arrivals (not direct from the US) into St. Pancras and London
City, where I believe Oyster cards are readily available. (Or are
Oysters not available at DLR stations?)

I was thinking of someone with an existing Oyster who needs to
top up online and collect on arrival. They have to know the point
of arrival at the time of the online top up.

Why does the aforementioned someone need to top up online? Every
entry point to the UK where Oyster is accepted (Heathrow, London
City, and St. Pancras are all that come to mind) have Oyster top-up
facilities.

It was my brother's question. Maybe it's the queues at Heathrow.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
11:29:10 on Tue, 25 Nov 2008,
remarked:
Depends what you call a "problem". The railway ticket machines
haven't taken plastic until the last year (approx), and even now
it's only a few.

and that was perhaps 20 years ago. Switzerland has been fine
every time I've been there.

Whether Switzerland is fine or not, the ticket machines are not
plastic-friendly.

In both cases, I expect, I've had no problems using plastic at a ticket
office.

I think they charge you extra for buying a ticket at a manned
office (assuming there's one open).

In Switzerland? New since I lat went there, then.

And I don't speak a word of Dutch.

You do, but don't realise it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...f_Dutch_origin

Ho, ho. You'll be telling me I understand Hungarian next because I know
what a coach is.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Andrew
Heenan) wrote:

wrote:
So the number is all you need in either case. QED.

Not really; that was a side issue, not the main issue.

The main issue is security, yours and TfL's
You need to know that if your account has been defrauded, you can
demonstrate that it's not your card that's been topped up (at,
least, not one that's registered to you).

But what's your problem with registration?
Is it a civil liberties thing, or is there a substantive objection?

Why is security not an issue for Mobile Phones?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Andrew
Heenan) wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote ...
We should have another utl meet, this time with a tinfoil hat
making workshop.

Does that entail having the same conversation umpteen times, with
certain *unnamed* members holding their fingers in their ears the
whole time going "I'm not listening, I'm not listening".

Mind you, the worst offenders wouldn't be able to travel to the
venue, let alone find it, as they'd be frightened of Big Brother
catching them crossing the borough line. And other members taking
their photo if they arrived.

Sounds like a bundle of fun !!

You didn't come to the last gathering, did you?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote
Mind you, the worst offenders wouldn't be able to travel to the
venue, let alone find it, as they'd be frightened of Big Brother
catching them crossing the borough line. And other members taking
their photo if they arrived.
Sounds like a bundle of fun !!
You didn't come to the last gathering, did you?

Tragically not.
--

Andrew