Hi everyone.

This is probably a very obvious question that's been dealt with dozens
of times already, but Google doesn't seem to be turning anything up.

Currently, if you own a paper point-to-point season ticket, and want to
extend an off-peak return journey beyond its furthest point, you can
buy, from your local station, an off-peak cheap day return for the
excess portion before you start your journey.

For eaxmple, say you had a season ticket between Gipsy Hill and Croydon
because that's where you live and/or work, but you want to visit Sutton
one weekend to do your shopping, because that's less of a dump than
Croydon. You can buy an an off-peak cheap day return from Croydon to
Sutton at the Gipsy Hill ticket office.

What are we supposed to do when off-peak paper tickets in London are
abolished next year? Since AIUI point-to-point seasons won't be
available under Oyster next year, and will continue to be only issued on
paper tickets, we won't even have the luxury of using those newfangled
OEP things. Instead the choice seems to be between either

1) buying a full-price peak-hour anytime return for the excess portion
before starting the journey even though that's a more expensive fare,

2) travelling the first section using the season, getting out of the
train at West Croydon, going to the ticket office there, using your
season to let you out of the barriers if theyi're in use, touching in
with Oyster, returning to the platform, waiting for the next train, and
continuing to Sutton,

or 3) leaving the season at home and just using Oyster PAYG all the way
even though that means paying twice for the bit covered by the season.

Those people moaining about OEPs just don't know how lucky they really
are...

On 7 Dec, 01:30, "solar penguin" wrote:
Hi everyone.

This is probably a very obvious question that's been dealt with dozens
of times already, but Google doesn't seem to be turning anything up.

Currently, if you own a paper point-to-point season ticket, and want to
extend an off-peak return journey beyond its furthest point, you can
buy, from your local station, an off-peak cheap day return for the
excess portion before you start your journey.

For eaxmple, say you had a season ticket between Gipsy Hill and Croydon
because that's where you live and/or work, but you want to visit Sutton
one weekend to do your shopping, because that's less of a dump than
Croydon. *You can buy an an off-peak cheap day return from Croydon to
Sutton at the Gipsy Hill ticket office.

What are we supposed to do when off-peak paper tickets in London are
abolished next year? *Since AIUI point-to-point seasons won't be
available under Oyster next year, and will continue to be only issued on
paper tickets, we won't even have the luxury of using those newfangled
OEP things. *Instead the choice seems to be between either

1) buying a full-price peak-hour anytime return for the excess portion
before starting the journey even though that's a more expensive fare,

2) travelling the first section using the season, getting out of the
train at West Croydon, going to the ticket office there, using your
season to let you out of the barriers if theyi're in use, touching in
with Oyster, returning to the platform, waiting for the next train, and
continuing to Sutton,

or 3) leaving the season at home and just using Oyster PAYG all the way
even though that means paying twice for the bit covered by the season.

Those people moaining about OEPs just don't know how lucky they really
are...

That's exactly the situation now when extending a journey on LU with a
paper travelcard.

It's not a problem.

Having to get off the train to touch in and out is perfectly
acceptable.

Now, never again question the benefits of and benevolent intentions
behind Oyster.

MIG wrote:


That's exactly the situation now when extending a journey on LU with a
paper travelcard.


Really? Interesting. Thanks. As I hardly ever use LU unless I have
to, and definitely haven't needed any kind of Travelcard season (paper
or otherwise) for nearly 20 years, I didn't know that.

I'm surprised they didn't sort out all the problems and get the system
to work properly on LU _before_ extending it to even more lines where
those problems will become more serious.

It's not a problem.

Having to get off the train to touch in and out is perfectly
acceptable.

Now, never again question the benefits of and benevolent intentions
behind Oyster.

I've been thinking a lot about my feelings towards Oyster, trying to
work out _why_ I'm so sceptical towards it. I think it's because I'm
sceptical towards the whole "zonal fares and Travelcards" concepts which
Oyster is far too heavily mixed up in for my liking.

If Oyster becomes standard on National Rail, it could be a serious blow
against proper point-to-point seasons. I'm worried they might even be
abolished on NR to force everyone into paying extra for Travelcards,
just like has already happened on LU.

OTOH If someone could produce a sort of point-to-point equivalent of
Oyster, I'd probably welcome it with open arms. (Hmmm... Isn't that
more or less what SWT were trying to do before those *******s at TfL
stopped them and forced them to use Oyster instead?)

"solar penguin" wrote in message
...

I've been thinking a lot about my feelings towards Oyster, trying to work
out _why_ I'm so sceptical towards it. I think it's because I'm sceptical
towards the whole "zonal fares and Travelcards" concepts which Oyster is
far too heavily mixed up in for my liking.

If Oyster becomes standard on National Rail, it could be a serious blow
against proper point-to-point seasons. I'm worried they might even be
abolished on NR to force everyone into paying extra for Travelcards, just
like has already happened on LU.


The TOCs already announced, (some time prior to 2008 when all non-seasons
became zonally priced), that all point to point seasons within the zones
would be changed to zonal pricing from Jan 2010.

I don't think anything more has been announced about that recently though.
Seasons could still show origin and destination, but there'd be little point
in not making them valid zonally.

Paul S

"solar penguin" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone.

This is probably a very obvious question that's been dealt with dozens of
times already, but Google doesn't seem to be turning anything up.

Currently, if you own a paper point-to-point season ticket, and want to
extend an off-peak return journey beyond its furthest point, you can buy,
from your local station, an off-peak cheap day return for the excess
portion before you start your journey.

For eaxmple, say you had a season ticket between Gipsy Hill and Croydon
because that's where you live and/or work, but you want to visit Sutton
one weekend to do your shopping, because that's less of a dump than
Croydon. You can buy an an off-peak cheap day return from Croydon to
Sutton at the Gipsy Hill ticket office.

What are we supposed to do when off-peak paper tickets in London are
abolished next year?

They haven't said that, they've said offpeak day return (CDR) paper tickets
will not be available for travel within the zones. They haven't said there
will be 'no paper tickets at all'. They'll still be needed to travel outside
London, and I'm expecting when the NR fares changes are published they'll be
selling paper offpeak travelcards in lieu of CDRs. The price is only
marginally higher normally.

Paul S

On Dec 7, 8:13*am, MIG wrote:
On 7 Dec, 01:30, "solar penguin" wrote:





Hi everyone.

This is probably a very obvious question that's been dealt with dozens
of times already, but Google doesn't seem to be turning anything up.

Currently, if you own a paper point-to-point season ticket, and want to
extend an off-peak return journey beyond its furthest point, you can
buy, from your local station, an off-peak cheap day return for the
excess portion before you start your journey.

For eaxmple, say you had a season ticket between Gipsy Hill and Croydon
because that's where you live and/or work, but you want to visit Sutton
one weekend to do your shopping, because that's less of a dump than
Croydon. *You can buy an an off-peak cheap day return from Croydon to
Sutton at the Gipsy Hill ticket office.

What are we supposed to do when off-peak paper tickets in London are
abolished next year? *Since AIUI point-to-point seasons won't be
available under Oyster next year, and will continue to be only issued on
paper tickets, we won't even have the luxury of using those newfangled
OEP things. *Instead the choice seems to be between either

1) buying a full-price peak-hour anytime return for the excess portion
before starting the journey even though that's a more expensive fare,

2) travelling the first section using the season, getting out of the
train at West Croydon, going to the ticket office there, using your
season to let you out of the barriers if theyi're in use, touching in
with Oyster, returning to the platform, waiting for the next train, and
continuing to Sutton,

or 3) leaving the season at home and just using Oyster PAYG all the way
even though that means paying twice for the bit covered by the season.

Those people moaining about OEPs just don't know how lucky they really
are...

That's exactly the situation now when extending a journey on LU with a
paper travelcard.

It's not a problem.

Having to get off the train to touch in and out is perfectly
acceptable.

Now, never again question the benefits of and benevolent intentions
behind Oyster.

Haha.

The point is, on LU it isn't a problem, because on LU there's no
reason to have a paper season ticket and paper season tickets aren't
sold.

On NR, there is a reason to have a paper season ticket and paper
season tickets are sold, so it is a problem.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Dec 7, 9:37*am, "solar penguin"
wrote:
MIG wrote:

That's exactly the situation now when extending a journey on LU with a
paper travelcard.

Really? *Interesting. *Thanks. *As I hardly ever use LU unless I have
to, and definitely haven't needed any kind of Travelcard season (paper
or otherwise) for nearly 20 years, I didn't know that.

I'm surprised they didn't sort out all the problems and get the system
to work properly on LU _before_ extending it to even more lines where
those problems will become more serious.

It's not a problem.

Having to get off the train to touch in and out is perfectly
acceptable.

Now, never again question the benefits of and benevolent intentions
behind Oyster.

I've been thinking a lot about my feelings towards Oyster, trying to
work out _why_ I'm so sceptical towards it. *I think it's because I'm
sceptical towards the whole "zonal fares and Travelcards" concepts which
Oyster is far too heavily mixed up in for my liking.

If Oyster becomes standard on National Rail, it could be a serious blow
against proper point-to-point seasons. *I'm worried they might even be
abolished on NR to force everyone into paying extra for Travelcards,
just like has already happened on LU.

Almost certainly the plan - and for my money it can't come a moment
too soon. The straightforward, convenient LU way of doing it is far
more sensible than the arcane, point-to-point NR way of doing it.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 7 Dec, 11:34, John B wrote:
On Dec 7, 8:13*am, MIG wrote:





On 7 Dec, 01:30, "solar penguin" wrote:

Hi everyone.

This is probably a very obvious question that's been dealt with dozens
of times already, but Google doesn't seem to be turning anything up.

Currently, if you own a paper point-to-point season ticket, and want to
extend an off-peak return journey beyond its furthest point, you can
buy, from your local station, an off-peak cheap day return for the
excess portion before you start your journey.

For eaxmple, say you had a season ticket between Gipsy Hill and Croydon
because that's where you live and/or work, but you want to visit Sutton
one weekend to do your shopping, because that's less of a dump than
Croydon. *You can buy an an off-peak cheap day return from Croydon to
Sutton at the Gipsy Hill ticket office.

What are we supposed to do when off-peak paper tickets in London are
abolished next year? *Since AIUI point-to-point seasons won't be
available under Oyster next year, and will continue to be only issued on
paper tickets, we won't even have the luxury of using those newfangled
OEP things. *Instead the choice seems to be between either

1) buying a full-price peak-hour anytime return for the excess portion
before starting the journey even though that's a more expensive fare,

2) travelling the first section using the season, getting out of the
train at West Croydon, going to the ticket office there, using your
season to let you out of the barriers if theyi're in use, touching in
with Oyster, returning to the platform, waiting for the next train, and
continuing to Sutton,

or 3) leaving the season at home and just using Oyster PAYG all the way
even though that means paying twice for the bit covered by the season..

Those people moaining about OEPs just don't know how lucky they really
are...

That's exactly the situation now when extending a journey on LU with a
paper travelcard.

It's not a problem.

Having to get off the train to touch in and out is perfectly
acceptable.

Now, never again question the benefits of and benevolent intentions
behind Oyster.

Haha.

The point is, on LU it isn't a problem, because on LU there's no
reason to have a paper season ticket and paper season tickets aren't
sold.

On NR, there is a reason to have a paper season ticket and paper
season tickets are sold, so it is a problem.


So people with paper travelcards bought from NR don't use LU?

Yes, I know there are various unreliable and inconvenient ways of
making sure that you always have your travelcard on Oyster, but there
are still cases where you can't.

For example, outboundary 1 - 6 travelcard and wanting to travel on the
Metropolitan beyond zone 6 at the Oyster rate. Yes, it's happened to
me.

Paul Scott wrote:
"solar penguin" wrote in message
...

What are we supposed to do when off-peak paper tickets in London are
abolished next year?

They haven't said that, they've said offpeak day return (CDR) paper
tickets will not be available for travel within the zones. They
haven't said there will be 'no paper tickets at all'. They'll still
be needed to travel outside London, and I'm expecting when the NR
fares changes are published they'll be selling paper offpeak
travelcards in lieu of CDRs. The price is only marginally higher
normally.

Update today, as far as I can see the new NR fares are now uploaded for
dates beyond Jan 2nd.

Using as an example Surbiton - Waterloo[NR], the options seem to be:

Anytime SIngle £5.00
Anytime Day return £9.80
Anytime Travelcard £14.80
Offpeak Travelcard £7.50 - same as daily Oyster PAYG cap

The current Offpeak day return (CDR ) was £6.50 (but has disappeared
AFAICT).

Any other interpretations out there?

Paul S

Paul Scott wrote:


If Oyster becomes standard on National Rail, it could be a serious
blow against proper point-to-point seasons. I'm worried they might
even be abolished on NR to force everyone into paying extra for
Travelcards, just like has already happened on LU.


The TOCs already announced, (some time prior to 2008 when all
non-seasons became zonally priced), that all point to point seasons
within the zones would be changed to zonal pricing from Jan 2010.

I don't think anything more has been announced about that recently
though. Seasons could still show origin and destination, but there'd
be little point in not making them valid zonally.

That's depressing news. Thanks for the warning.

Out of curiosity, will these be zonal NR-only season tickets? Or will
there only be Travelcards, forcing us to pay for tube/DLR etc. validity
that we don't need.