In message , at 16:59:15
on Tue, 12 Jan 2010, remarked:

I must get someone to show me this supposed step-free route to the
Piccadilly Line at King's Cross.

Northern ticket hall, lift down to new passageways; short lift down
to platforms. (The only access that's not finished yet is the lift
down from the old concourse to the Northern Line platforms)

The current access to the Northern ticket hall from King's Cross main
line is not step-free.

There are five that I can think of (are you saying some are out of
action temporarily). Working around the complex clockwise:

There's a lift just inside the St Pancras extension that goes up to
the Kent platforms and down to the passageway to the NTH. There's
another lift by the stairs which come out near the KX Suburban
platforms. The third lift is by the stairs that give access to the
KX mainlaine concourse near the large departure board, and the
fourth is out by the main road and leads down to the old concourse,
which is then a level passageway all the way to the NTH. The fifth
lift is inside the western ticket hall and gives access from road
level to the barrier level, which connected by a level passage to
the old KX tube concourse.

All but the first mentioned are on this diagram I did a year ago,
from various plans, before it all opened ...

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-com...with-lifts.jpg

(the numbers refer to the kind of lift, not an ordering that they
are currently using on the signage - which doesn't include my first
lift because it appears to be regarded as a St Pancras mainline
lift not a tube station lift):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blech/4147448998/

The only lift from ground level only goes relevantly to the old tube
concourse which does not have step-free access to the Piccadilly Line.

That's the fourth one in my list above, top half of lift "D".

You seem to be assuming that the lifts are all completed.

They all seemed to be completed when I looked, the week the NTH opened
(with the one exception of the lift down to the Northern Line
platforms). Of course, two of the surface lifts I mentioned have been
open for several years now.

I'm only talking about access from King's Cross concourse which is not
yet completed.

So you are saying lift C isn't commissioned yet?

I can't see any access to the Northern ticket hall from King's Cross
which is presently open that is not down steps, apart from the old lift
by the front of the station.

There's lifts C and A.

I don't regard as travel via St Pancras as a credible route.

Nor do I, but unfortunately my trains to London terminate in a distant
corner of St Pancras, and that's the best they can do. In fact, those
platforms are further from the St Pancras "Kent Line" lift...

bottom of lift: http://www.perry.co.uk/images/unmarked-lift.jpg

.... than KX Suburban platforms!

Top of the lift on the very left, you can see KX out of the window:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/st-pan...igns-north.jpg

And lift A is about halfway between the two.

The lift at the front of King's Cross would be a squeeze with a bike,
by the way.

The lifts aren't designed for bikes, I guess. Just wheelchairs, buggies
and luggage. Taking a bike on the tube as a regular thing is a tad
antisocial, in my view (although OK in an emergency).

But I carry my bike up and down stairs. I'd just rather not do so at a
station like Edgware Road where the signage is so crap you can't be
sure which platform you need.

So don't take the bike! (Yes, I know, you won't ever agree not to).
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
[wake up to reply] (Jim Brittin) wrote:

In article ,
says...
In article , ]
(Steve Fitzgerald) wrote:

Of course you'll carry your bike all the way down to the DLTs
and then some jobsworth (did I say that?) will tell you that
you can't carry an unfolded bike down there.

DLTs?

Presumably Deep Level Tubes

Ah! I wouldn't presume to try taking my bike on the deep level tubes, even
in the open sections. The space take is rather more disproportionate that
on surface stock.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message ,
writes

Of course you'll carry your bike all the way down to the DLTs
and then some jobsworth (did I say that?) will tell you that
you can't carry an unfolded bike down there.

DLTs?

Presumably Deep Level Tubes

Ah! I wouldn't presume to try taking my bike on the deep level tubes, even
in the open sections. The space take is rather more disproportionate that
on surface stock.

He was right about DLT. We do get a few bikes on west of Barons Court
though.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
th.li...
On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Mike Bristow wrote:

In article i,
Tom Anderson wrote:
Transfer the Hammersmith branch to Crossrail.

Crossrail platforms are 240m long, IIRC. C-Stock trains are 6 car and
are - what, 90m long or so? I'm not sure how expensive it would be to
doble the length of all the stations en-route, but my gut feel is "lots".

More precisely, "****ing masses".

Now, 7-car S-stock is, AIUI, going to be able to work the Hammersmith
branch without any platform extensions, and those trains are 117.4 m long.

Sorry, but plats at Hammersmith (H&C) are about 96-7m long. There is work
needed - but I haven't been able to find out what the work programme is.
There was a thread over at District Dave's on this. The key issue at
Hammersmith is access to the depot on the east side of the line. It means
that the buffer stops must be moved south. Perhaps we'll just see 6 car S
stock until funds for such platform work shake loose?

DW downunder

In article , ] (Steve
Fitzgerald) wrote:

In message ,
writes

Of course you'll carry your bike all the way down to the DLTs and
then some jobsworth (did I say that?) will tell you that you
can't carry an unfolded bike down there.

DLTs?

Presumably Deep Level Tubes

Ah! I wouldn't presume to try taking my bike on the deep level tubes,
even in the open sections. The space take is rather more
disproportionate than on surface stock.

He was right about DLT. We do get a few bikes on west of Barons
Court though.

and you leave them be? Even out of peak hours they could be a real
problem, I'd have thought.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
16:59:15 on Tue, 12 Jan 2010, remarked:

I must get someone to show me this supposed step-free route to the
Piccadilly Line at King's Cross.

Northern ticket hall, lift down to new passageways; short lift down
to platforms. (The only access that's not finished yet is the lift
down from the old concourse to the Northern Line platforms)

The current access to the Northern ticket hall from King's Cross
main line is not step-free.

There are five that I can think of (are you saying some are out of
action temporarily). Working around the complex clockwise:

There's a lift just inside the St Pancras extension that goes up to
the Kent platforms and down to the passageway to the NTH. There's
another lift by the stairs which come out near the KX Suburban
platforms. The third lift is by the stairs that give access to the
KX mainlaine concourse near the large departure board, and the
fourth is out by the main road and leads down to the old concourse,
which is then a level passageway all the way to the NTH. The fifth
lift is inside the western ticket hall and gives access from road
level to the barrier level, which connected by a level passage to
the old KX tube concourse.

All but the first mentioned are on this diagram I did a year ago,
from various plans, before it all opened ...

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-com...with-lifts.jpg

(the numbers refer to the kind of lift, not an ordering that they
are currently using on the signage - which doesn't include my first
lift because it appears to be regarded as a St Pancras mainline
lift not a tube station lift):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blech/4147448998/

The only lift from ground level only goes relevantly to the old tube
concourse which does not have step-free access to the Piccadilly
Line.

That's the fourth one in my list above, top half of lift "D".

You seem to be assuming that the lifts are all completed.

They all seemed to be completed when I looked, the week the NTH
opened (with the one exception of the lift down to the Northern
Line platforms). Of course, two of the surface lifts I mentioned
have been open for several years now.

I've only ever seen one lift at King's Cross, that in Euston Road. The
main tube access now is from the concourse and I've not seen any lift
there. I have never seen any sign of your lift 1.

I'm only talking about access from King's Cross concourse which is not
yet completed.

So you are saying lift C isn't commissioned yet?

I can't see any access to the Northern ticket hall from King's Cross
which is presently open that is not down steps, apart from the old
lift by the front of the station.

There's lifts C and A.

I don't regard as travel via St Pancras as a credible route.

Nor do I, but unfortunately my trains to London terminate in a
distant corner of St Pancras, and that's the best they can do. In
fact, those platforms are further from the St Pancras "Kent Line"
lift...

bottom of lift: http://www.perry.co.uk/images/unmarked-lift.jpg

... than KX Suburban platforms!

Top of the lift on the very left, you can see KX out of the window:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/st-pan...igns-north.jpg

And lift A is about halfway between the two.

The lift at the front of King's Cross would be a squeeze with a bike,
by the way.

The lifts aren't designed for bikes, I guess. Just wheelchairs,
buggies and luggage. Taking a bike on the tube as a regular thing
is a tad antisocial, in my view (although OK in an emergency).

The long standing lift out the front of the Kings Cross concourse is not
generous with a buggy and luggage. I've tried it when helping my daughter
and granddaughter from Cambridge to Heathrow.

But I carry my bike up and down stairs. I'd just rather not do so at
a station like Edgware Road where the signage is so crap you
can't be sure which platform you need.

So don't take the bike! (Yes, I know, you won't ever agree not to).

It's normally a much more practical way round central London. Quicker than
the tube (without these issues) as well as more predictable.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote on 13 January 2010 18:52:28 ...
In article , ] (Steve
Fitzgerald) wrote:

In message ,
writes

Of course you'll carry your bike all the way down to the DLTs and
then some jobsworth (did I say that?) will tell you that you
can't carry an unfolded bike down there.
DLTs?

Presumably Deep Level Tubes

Ah! I wouldn't presume to try taking my bike on the deep level tubes,
even in the open sections. The space take is rather more
disproportionate than on surface stock.

He was right about DLT. We do get a few bikes on west of Barons
Court though.

and you leave them be? Even out of peak hours they could be a real
problem, I'd have thought.

Not much worse than all the baggage of the Heathrow passengers. Anyway,
why do you expect Steve to throw off bikes west of Barons Court? Are
you not familiar with
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...e-tube-map.pdf ?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In message ,
writes

DLTs?

Presumably Deep Level Tubes

Ah! I wouldn't presume to try taking my bike on the deep level tubes,
even in the open sections. The space take is rather more
disproportionate than on surface stock.

He was right about DLT. We do get a few bikes on west of Barons
Court though.

and you leave them be? Even out of peak hours they could be a real
problem, I'd have thought.

Rules is rules; they's allowed to travel on all open sections. It's not
for me to disagree.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In article , ] (Steve
Fitzgerald) wrote:

In message ,
writes

DLTs?

Presumably Deep Level Tubes

Ah! I wouldn't presume to try taking my bike on the deep level
tubes, even in the open sections. The space take is rather more
disproportionate than on surface stock.

He was right about DLT. We do get a few bikes on west of Barons
Court though.

and you leave them be? Even out of peak hours they could be a real
problem, I'd have thought.

Rules is rules; they's allowed to travel on all open sections.
It's not for me to disagree.

Well I never! I was wrong all this time. Sorry about that. I thought the
limitation was on the trains not on the lines.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jan 13, 11:39*pm, wrote:
In article , ] (Steve

Fitzgerald) wrote:
In message ,
writes

DLTs?

Presumably Deep Level Tubes

Ah! I wouldn't presume to try taking my bike on the deep level
tubes, even in the open sections. The space take is rather more
disproportionate than on surface stock.

He was right about DLT. *We do get a few bikes on west of Barons
Court though.

and you leave them be? Even out of peak hours they could be a real
problem, I'd have thought.

Rules is rules; they's allowed to travel on all open sections. *
It's not for me to disagree.

Well I never! I was wrong all this time. Sorry about that. I thought the
limitation was on the trains not on the lines.

TfL have had, for some time now, a map online of where you can take a
bike on the tube:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...e-tube-map.pdf
(it's also displayed at some stations - White City has one)

This page lists other modes of transport which allow cycles:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11701.aspx