wrote:

What really annoys me are people who stop just before getting on an
escalator. They to put both feet on one of the plates and will hesitate,
rather than just stepping on.

As I do. As many of us with mobility problems have to. And if that annoys
you, just wait until you have mobility problems of your own.

--
Mochilero

On Jul 30, 10:17*pm, "
wrote:
On 30/07/2010 21:16, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:14:42 +0100, Tom
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, wrote:

I had to use the tube today and had the pleasure of some eejit wearing a
rucksack in front of me constantly swivelling it about and bumping me..
Happily I managed to get my own back when I got off the train by just
shoving past their rucksack and almost knocking them over but shouldn't
there be some sort of bylaw for not wearing huge rucksacks to deal with
these sorts of idiots who seem to think they're still trecking in nepal
even when squashed on the victoria line?

Well it is the holiday season. *This year is nowhere near as bad as
previous years for rucksackitis. * I used Victoria tube at lunchtime
earlier this week - it was complete mayhem with so many visitors just
not knowing where to go or what to do. *The queue for tickets was
enormous at the ticket office and the machines - a real surprise even
though it is one of the busiest stations.

Yes, there should. Also people who roll their little rolly cases in the
tube passageways, and people who think that just having stepped off a
train is the right time to put their bag down and fiddle with it.

Oh yes. *It's the handbags (not cases) on wheels that stagger me. What
can you be carrying in a handbag that is so heavy that you need wheeled
assistance?

And also people who only start retrieving their ticket when they get to a
gate.

And people who think right in front of an entrance or the foot of an
escalator is the right place to stand in groups of a dozen and discuss
where to go.

And people who walk down the middle of a passageway, occupying the whole
thing, at a speed slower than intended by anyone else. Admittedly this
only applies to wide people and narrow passages, but this is London, and
that is a frequent combination.

You (and others) have mentioned most of my pet hates. A recent annoyance
is people managing to combine standing at the edge of a platform, the
middle of the platform and the back plus littering it with bags,
standing in groups and also obstructing the entrance to the platform
[1]. *This is a speciality of the westbound District Line at Victoria -
an absolute shambles. *None of the people have any clue that in
combination they have effectively prevented all movement on the platform
or that people might just want to get past.deep breath& *sigh * *I
hate to say it but one day there will be an accident as a result of
this.

[1] note this is not the height of the rush hour when I accept platforms
can get completely packed out with people but at least they "know the
drill".

What really annoys me are people who stop just before getting on an
escalator. They to put both feet on one of the plates and will hesitate,
rather than just stepping on.

That must be me then, blame it on the dodgey hip, and hope you never
have the same problem.
Or do you want to ban me from PT because I also take a bit longer then
mosy people getting on/off busses & trains.

Greetings.

In article , Eric wrote:
On 2010-07-30, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, d wrote:

And people who walk down the middle of a passageway, occupying the whole
thing, at a speed slower than intended by anyone else. Admittedly this
only applies to wide people and narrow passages, but this is London, and
that is a frequent combination.

Do we in fact need a taxonomy of intolerable underground behaviour?


Perhaps, but not yours. I have removed a lot of your list, but what's
left is pretty much equivalent to saying that people with disabilities
should stay home and keep out of your way.

Exactly what disability causes people to walk slowly down the middle of a
narrow passageway? Is there some affliction that prevents them from
keeping to one side, thereby allowing faster-moving traffic to pass them?
Or is "being inconsiderate of others" now classed as a disability?

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

On 01/08/2010 13:21, Tristan Miller wrote:
Greetings.

In , Eric wrote:
On 2010-07-30, Tom wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, d wrote:

And people who walk down the middle of a passageway, occupying the whole
thing, at a speed slower than intended by anyone else. Admittedly this
only applies to wide people and narrow passages, but this is London, and
that is a frequent combination.

Do we in fact need a taxonomy of intolerable underground behaviour?


Perhaps, but not yours. I have removed a lot of your list, but what's
left is pretty much equivalent to saying that people with disabilities
should stay home and keep out of your way.

Exactly what disability causes people to walk slowly down the middle of a
narrow passageway? Is there some affliction that prevents them from
keeping to one side, thereby allowing faster-moving traffic to pass them?

Being really, seriously, even Americans would be shocked, overweight?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 2010-07-31, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Eric
writes
On 2010-07-30, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Eric
writes
On 2010-07-30, Tom Anderson wrote:

Do we in fact need a taxonomy of intolerable underground behaviour?


Perhaps, but not yours. I have removed a lot of your list, but what's
left is pretty much equivalent to saying that people with disabilities
should stay home and keep out of your way.

Er, that's one heck of a jump of reasoning from what Tom actually wrote!

Not given considerable experience of abusive and threatening behaviour
from people who disapprove of these actions when in fact our choice is
between doing that and never going anywhere. Not to say that Tom would
be abusive and threatening,

Quite.

but enough people are to make me somewhat
bitter about it all.


I am - of course - sorry to hear that. My experience of dealing with a
mobility problem (not my own) has increased considerably recently to the
point where "planning trips in detail" is now a regular activity.


My basic point is that unless you have had some sort of mobility problem
you tend to think that the tolerance and helpfulness of the world at
large is much greater than it actually is.

And my basic point is that you can't make that assumption. To believe
that only those with a mobility problem can "understand" is wrong.

I'm not saying you can't understand at some level, just that unless you
are the one with the problem (or their immediate helper), you probably
over-estimate the helpfulness of the rest of the world.


If someone moves slowly but there's nowhere else for them to go, then
those behind will just need to wait, angry and abusive or not. I think
though that here the point being made was that slower moving people tend
to occupy unnecessarily large bits of passageways sometimes, where a
little consideration from them (ie moving to the side) would help
*everyone*. Give and take, manners and all that.

Thus showing what I mean about not getting it. As well as slowness,
there is lack of manoeuvrability, and the stick or similar which makes
the person wider than they would otherwise be. If the stick is on the
wall side, more clearance is needed to keep the wall from interfering
than a able-bodied person would need for their own body-parts. If the
stick is on the outside, any accompanying person will quite likely be in
a protective position, making the two-person combination wider still.
This is due to the number of times the stick has actually been kicked away
by the unthinking (so far, in our case, without disastrous consequence).

There are also the issues of not being able to pause when necessary,
and being forced to pause when not necessary, both of which are a
problem.

Then there's having luggage (in whatever form) as well!

As an aside, I remain genuinely surprised and delighted at the treatment
a group of (elderly but not disabled) visitors I once had to take on the
District Line were given. A crowded but not heaving carriage had no
seats and people gave up their seats in large numbers to allow them to
sit down. It made a favourable impression on them as it did on me.

I'm afraid I am cynical enough to wonder if this was a "ripple of shame"
effect from one or two considerate individuals.

Eric

On 2010-08-01, Tristan Miller wrote:
Greetings.

In article , Eric wrote:
On 2010-07-30, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, d wrote:

And people who walk down the middle of a passageway, occupying the whole
thing, at a speed slower than intended by anyone else. Admittedly this
only applies to wide people and narrow passages, but this is London, and
that is a frequent combination.

Do we in fact need a taxonomy of intolerable underground behaviour?


Perhaps, but not yours. I have removed a lot of your list, but what's
left is pretty much equivalent to saying that people with disabilities
should stay home and keep out of your way.

Exactly what disability causes people to walk slowly down the middle of a
narrow passageway? Is there some affliction that prevents them from
keeping to one side, thereby allowing faster-moving traffic to pass them?
Or is "being inconsiderate of others" now classed as a disability?


Normally, I would say "see my response to another post", but I think in
this case I should make sure you see it by repeating it here. Apologies
to anyone who is thinking "I've read this before".

As well as slowness, there is lack of manoeuvrability, and the stick or
similar which makes the person wider than they would otherwise be. If
the stick is on the wall side, more clearance is needed to keep the
wall from interfering than a able-bodied person would need for their
own body-parts. If the stick is on the outside, any accompanying person
will quite likely be in a protective position, making the two-person
combination wider still. This is due to the number of times the stick
has actually been kicked away by the unthinking (so far, in our case,
without disastrous consequence).

There are also the issues of not being able to pause when necessary,
and being forced to pause when not necessary, both of which are a
problem.

Then there's having luggage (in whatever form) as well!

Or are you really one of those who believes that we should stay at home
for ever?

Someone who seems inconsiderate may still be doing they best they can.

Eric

On 1 Aug, 21:37, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Eric
writes

Or are you really one of those who believes that we should stay at home
for ever?

Eric, of *course* they don't. * There's that chip again.


I would "chip" in at this point that the kind of problems people were
complaining about were mainly to do with some people's wilful lack of
awareness of their surroundings, and that I would expect the mobility
impaired to be more acutely aware of their surroundings than most and
not to be the ones causing these problems.

And my anecdote: being berated for colliding with a woman who had
stopped dead at the bottom of the escalator from Waterloo East to
Waterloo and evidently assumed that I could prevent it from propelling
me into her.

On 2010-08-01, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Eric
writes
On 2010-07-31, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Eric
writes
On 2010-07-30, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Eric
writes
On 2010-07-30, Tom Anderson wrote:

Do we in fact need a taxonomy of intolerable underground behaviour?


Perhaps, but not yours. I have removed a lot of your list, but what's
left is pretty much equivalent to saying that people with disabilities
should stay home and keep out of your way.

Er, that's one heck of a jump of reasoning from what Tom actually wrote!

Not given considerable experience of abusive and threatening behaviour
from people who disapprove of these actions when in fact our choice is
between doing that and never going anywhere. Not to say that Tom would
be abusive and threatening,

Quite.

but enough people are to make me somewhat
bitter about it all.


I am - of course - sorry to hear that. My experience of dealing with a
mobility problem (not my own) has increased considerably recently to the
point where "planning trips in detail" is now a regular activity.


My basic point is that unless you have had some sort of mobility problem
you tend to think that the tolerance and helpfulness of the world at
large is much greater than it actually is.

And my basic point is that you can't make that assumption. To believe
that only those with a mobility problem can "understand" is wrong.

I'm not saying you can't understand at some level,

Good. Because you have no right to determine what I do or don't
understand.

just that unless you
are the one with the problem (or their immediate helper), you probably
over-estimate the helpfulness of the rest of the world.

I "probably" do nothing of the sort. Just because I'm lucky enough not
to have a disability (yet) does not mean that I am somehow incapable of
understanding.

I suggest that you get the chip off your shoulder.

No one here was talking about being "delayed" by someone with a mobility
issue. They were opining that people just dozily stop at inopportune
times sometimes. This afternoon, I witnessed *exactly* that (not in
London), where two people who evidently know each other bumped into each
other in a doorway. I'll let you guess where they instantly paused to
catch up on old times.


If someone moves slowly but there's nowhere else for them to go, then
those behind will just need to wait, angry and abusive or not. I think
though that here the point being made was that slower moving people tend
to occupy unnecessarily large bits of passageways sometimes, where a
little consideration from them (ie moving to the side) would help
*everyone*. Give and take, manners and all that.

Thus showing what I mean about not getting it.

It shows nothing of the sort.


As well as slowness,
there is lack of manoeuvrability, and the stick or similar which makes
the person wider than they would otherwise be. If the stick is on the
wall side, more clearance is needed to keep the wall from interfering
than a able-bodied person would need for their own body-parts. If the
stick is on the outside, any accompanying person will quite likely be in
a protective position, making the two-person combination wider still.
This is due to the number of times the stick has actually been kicked away
by the unthinking (so far, in our case, without disastrous consequence).

Again, no one here was talking about being "delayed" by someone with a
mobility issue.


There are also the issues of not being able to pause when necessary,
and being forced to pause when not necessary, both of which are a
problem.

We live an imperfect world.

Then there's having luggage (in whatever form) as well!


As an aside, I remain genuinely surprised and delighted at the treatment
a group of (elderly but not disabled) visitors I once had to take on the
District Line were given. A crowded but not heaving carriage had no
seats and people gave up their seats in large numbers to allow them to
sit down. It made a favourable impression on them as it did on me.

I'm afraid I am cynical enough to wonder if this was a "ripple of shame"
effect from one or two considerate individuals.

Whereas I'm a pleasant enough individual just to acknowledge kindness
when I see it rather than being perennially cynical and grumpy.

Phew. Bit opinionated for me but.......hey, this is Usenet!

Happy travelling. ;-)

If this is Usenet (yes, I know, it is) then I should probably say that
the smiley will not get you out of being killfiled.

No, nobody said "delayed", not even me, but this went from specific
inconsiderate behaviour (rucksacks) to a list, which included things
which I know can be due to mobility problems. And nobody knows what goes
on in someone else's head, we only go on external evidence. You think I
have a chip on my shoulder - you might too if your partner frequently
came home crying because no-one would give her a seat and people pushed
her out of the way and ... . And that's why I am less than certain of
your (or anybody's) level of understanding.

Continued on next rock...

Eric

On 2010-08-01, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Eric
writes
Or are you really one of those who believes that we should stay at home
for ever?

Eric, of *course* they don't. There's that chip again.


Next rock...

some people have said so (not in this thread but...). And I was
responding to someone who sounded as if he might be not far off that.

I see that there a couple of other posts not altogether different from
my viewpoint.

However, it is far too late for this, so goodnight,

Eric

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 09:17:28 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

Not sure if the prospect of being killfiled is supposed to make me feel
in some way threatened or bothered. Plainly it won't! It might be a
first, though (unless others have done it for reasons of boredom!).


Still here, Ian. Beginning to yawn, though. ;-)