On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 22:21:41 +0000 (UTC), Hans-Joachim Zierke
wrote:
Two adult males can't sit side by side. On the window side, the
garbage
can gets pressed into your leg above the knee

This is a major flaw in almost all European stock. Just put a big
one in the vestibule.

with Grammer seats, as used in new Eurobahn units

Tombstones?

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Wolfgang Schwanke schrieb:


Are you Lüko's twin? That's a silly question. I would say things were
best at the end of the 1990s when the system was reunified and new
extensions had been added, but the adverse effects of privatisation
hadn't had time to kick in yet. Things have gone downhill since.

"Downhill" could be marked with the scrapping of not just the old museum
trains, but GDR trains of the late 80s, stripping the S-Bahn of any
reserve.

An example for the arrogance of West-German managers. Yes, sure, they
were technically inferior, but wiser people would have put them into
storage yards.

Now they have lost tentousands of passengers per day, with no other
reason than "we don't need that GDR junk".


Hans-Joachim

--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

Am 01.01.2012 23:21, schrieb Hans-Joachim Zierke:

Clark F Morris schrieb:


Is the problem with the 425 series the seating (or seating
arrangement)?

Both.

Would it be feasible to change the seating during a
major overhaul and eliminate the problem? If the problems are
elsewhere, are they fixable during a major overhaul at reasonable
cost?

The seating could be changed, and this could make it a much better train.
Knee room would still not be sufficient, though, but there are more
examples for that, so it would be bad, but not exceptionally bad.
(Arrangement is unchangeable due to tech under the seats.)

As well, noise damping against the ear-piercing inverter frequencies at
some loadlevels should be technically possible.



BTW: The original concept for the 425 pointed to a superior train.
Then the beancounters came in and ruined it beyond repair.



Two adult males can't sit side by side. On the window side, the garbage
can gets pressed into your leg above the knee, on the other side, the
base of the armrest was sharpened towards the passenger's leg for maximum
torture effect...

We are talking about these seats.
http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/br-425-15767.jpg
http://www.vbn.de/bilder/et425-innen.jpg
Indeed it's a bit narrow for the typical German railfan suffering on
adipositas - and you can't open the window to lean out.
That's why regional trains in Germany at any case have to look lioke this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...A_DSB00017.JPG
in the last and in the next five decades.

Oliver Schnell

Wolfgang Schwanke schrieb:


only in the sense that lines across the borders between the GDR and
the peculiar political entity Westberlin were cut in August 1961.

which the East German government did.


Let's be historically correct he The first interruption, of the tram
system, was undertaken by West-Berlin, when they didn't allow female
drivers to enter.


Hans-Joachim


--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

On 31/12/11 12:54, Lüko Willms wrote:
He likes to point to the difference between workers in, say Hamburg or
Munich, who have lived all their lives under capitalism and those pesky
railway workers in Berlin who have not, and wants to subjugate those
into submission.

Why did your comrades in (Ost)Berlin feel it necessary to kill railway
workers there who wanted to work in Hamburg, while the authorities in
Hamburg did not take similar action against railway workers who wished
to move eastwards?

I think this is very relevant to your claim that DR workers had a better
deal than DB workers.

Ian

On 31/12/11 12:55, Lüko Willms wrote:

Oh, talk about the Malvinas Islands, Ireland, what have you.

The Falklands? Yes, happy to talk about them.

I think it was just as daft for Britain to assume that it had the right
to rule a smaller island of its coast as it is for the Argentina to
assume it has the right to rule a small island off its coast.

If the inhabitants of the Falklands were to show a clear majority desire
to join Argentina, I'd be happy to wish them buena suerte, and if the
inhabitants of NI were to show a clear majority desire to join the
Republic then luck maith to them too.

Now, explain again why you think that the USSR had the right to colonize
and suppress Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, East Germany, Hungary,
Bulgaria and Czechoslovakia for decades?

Ian

On 31/12/11 12:59, Lüko Willms wrote:
Am 31.12.2011 12:10, schrieb The Real Doctor:
On 31/12/11 08:02, ian batten wrote:
Next stop: Holocaust denial.

I prefer those who deny to those who actually advocate war against the
"unwashed masses of this planet".

If I meet anybody sho does that I shall be sure to hiss at them.

And have a hangover from the colonial
empires.

Do you mean middle class idealists in Germany who defend the decades of
brutal soviet colonialism in Europe, or is this a reference to the
expansionist desires of the Spanish colonial descendants in Buenos Aires?

Ian

On 01/01/12 15:27, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
I get it, Lüko is an undercover agent of the privatisation profiteers,
by associating any opposition to it with eastern block style
communision, and preventing any rational discussion beyond such crude
black&white patterns.

It's a plausible theory. Or as undercover agents on uk.railway
traditionally put it:

Excellent, personal abuse. Nice try. Do go on.

Ian

On 01/01/12 22:49, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
No not really. DB is run like a normal company with the goal to make a
profit. The fact that it is (still?) owned by the government appears
not to change this fact.

The idea that nationalised companies shouldn't make a profit is an
insidious one which resulted in the collapse of most nationalised
industries in the UK and elsewhere. Worker ownership of the means of
production doesn't work if /all/ of them need a subsidy.

Ian

On 01/01/12 17:58, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
They just want privat companies to extract money out
of the system, and I don't see why that should be.

Is it wrong for the employees of private companies (or nationalised
companies, for that matter) to earn money from their work? Should they
not be paid with food, clothes and housing?

Ian