On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:59:24 -0000, "Dave Liney"
wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
Over time the number of people changing there would fall, as people
reorganise their place of living and place of working around the new
regime...

Are you seriously suggesting that no-one living on the Edgware branch wants
to go to the West End, and that those on the High Barnet branch only want to
go to the City?

People don't arrange their lives around the through running of the Northern
Line.

Not in the short-term, no. But imagine the current service pattern
became permanent. Newcomers and movers within the area evaluate their
accommodation location based on many factors, a key one being ease of
use of public transport. The turnaround of people's lives is
sufficiently high that patterns would change as the months go on. You
only need look at, for example, provincial towns and cities [1] where
parking is difficult to see the exodus of shoppers to more convenient
facilities.

So as daft as it sounds, I think really do organise themselves around
train service patterns!

Sam

[1] I'd cite Cambridge as an example (rather quiet on the run-up to
Christmas) although I have no figures to back this up, and with many
avid Cambridge readers to this ng, I suspect I'd be rather flamed.
grin
--
Sam Holloway, Cambridge

"Dave Liney" typed



Are you seriously suggesting that no-one living on the Edgware branch wants
to go to the West End, and that those on the High Barnet branch only want to
go to the City?

People don't arrange their lives around the through running of the Northern
Line.

Dave.


Yebbut some of us learned to use the Vic Line to Oxford Circus after
changing from Euston (Bank Branch). This is by far the quickest way to
town from here (Burnt Oak)

I'm not that far from the Jubilee Line, which I can use to go to Bond Street.

People do learn other ways round the system, even if they do not move
house. I still want my Charing Cross trains though...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Just a passer-by curious Hong-Konger's words:

I am always curious about why there's no lines like "Hyper Outer Circle"
nowadays. Maybe linking up Finchley, Hendon, Neasden and reaching
Willesden may be a funny idea after all.

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message
...
"Dave Liney" typed

Are you seriously suggesting that no-one living on the Edgware branch
wants
to go to the West End, and that those on the High Barnet branch only
want to
go to the City?

People don't arrange their lives around the through running of the
Northern
Line.

Dave.


Yebbut some of us learned to use the Vic Line to Oxford Circus after
changing from Euston (Bank Branch). This is by far the quickest way to
town from here (Burnt Oak)

I'm not that far from the Jubilee Line, which I can use to go to Bond
Street.

People do learn other ways round the system, even if they do not move
house. I still want my Charing Cross trains though...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, PS wrote:

I am always curious about why there's no lines like "Hyper Outer Circle"
nowadays. Maybe linking up Finchley, Hendon, Neasden and reaching
Willesden may be a funny idea after all.

There is the North London Line, which runs from Richmind, via Acton,
Willesden, Brondesbury, Hampstead, Kentish Town, Caledonian Road,
Islington, Dalston, and Hackney to Stratford (with some trains going on
via West Ham to Woolwich). It's a railway line rather than a tube line, so
it isn't terribly well-known. it also has pretty infrequent services
compared to the tube.

However, there isn't a southern half to that circle; there are a couple of
orbital lines in south London, but they don't join up (we'd need a rail
link over or under the river somewhere in Greenwich or Woolwich, to get
you from, say North Woolwich to Woolwich Dockyard, or Canning Town to, er,
Maze Hill or something, and then some fairly unlikely junctions and
rerouting in south London to join up at the other end). But it would be
cool.

tom

--
Chance? Or sinister scientific conspiracy?

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...

However, there isn't a southern half to that circle;
there are a couple of orbital lines in south London,
but they don't join up (we'd need a rail link over or
under the river somewhere in Greenwich or
Woolwich, to get you from, say North Woolwich
to Woolwich Dockyard, or Canning Town to, er,
Maze Hill or something, and then some fairly
unlikely junctions and rerouting in south London
to join up at the other end). But it would be cool.

The junctions in South London already exist... either using the West London
Line, or using the curve from Chiswick BR station to South Acton.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"PS" wrote in message ...
Just a passer-by curious Hong-Konger's words:

I am always curious about why there's no lines like "Hyper Outer Circle"
nowadays. Maybe linking up Finchley, Hendon, Neasden and reaching
Willesden may be a funny idea after all.

Are you suggesting something like the Circle Line in Zones 3 and 4?

Even though such a line would be completely impossible to do, I could
see it running in a complete circle around London, starting at
Richmond and passing through Wimbledon, Vauxhall, Surrey Quays,
Mudchute, Canning Town, Barking, Leytonstone, Walthamstow Central,
Wood Green, East Finchley, Brent Cross, Wembley Park, South Kenton,
Alperton, and Hounslow Central, and eventually returning to Richmond.

But it would be almost impossible to do.


Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message
...
"Dave Liney" typed

Are you seriously suggesting that no-one living on the Edgware branch
wants
to go to the West End, and that those on the High Barnet branch only
want to
go to the City?

People don't arrange their lives around the through running of the
Northern
Line.

Dave.


Yebbut some of us learned to use the Vic Line to Oxford Circus after
changing from Euston (Bank Branch). This is by far the quickest way to
town from here (Burnt Oak)

I'm not that far from the Jubilee Line, which I can use to go to Bond
Street.

People do learn other ways round the system, even if they do not move
house. I still want my Charing Cross trains though...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

TheOneKEA wrote:
"PS" wrote in message ...

Just a passer-by curious Hong-Konger's words:

I am always curious about why there's no lines like "Hyper Outer Circle"
nowadays. Maybe linking up Finchley, Hendon, Neasden and reaching
Willesden may be a funny idea after all.


Are you suggesting something like the Circle Line in Zones 3 and 4?

Even though such a line would be completely impossible to do, I could
see it running in a complete circle around London, starting at
Richmond and passing through Wimbledon, Vauxhall, Surrey Quays,
Mudchute, Canning Town, Barking, Leytonstone, Walthamstow Central,
Wood Green, East Finchley, Brent Cross, Wembley Park, South Kenton,
Alperton, and Hounslow Central, and eventually returning to Richmond.

But it would be almost impossible to do.


Not at all... once the ELL extensions are complete (that is, of course,
if they ever get started properly) then there will be an extremely easy
route available via Canada Water, Hoxton, Highbury, Camden Road, West
Hampstead, Willesden Jcn, Olympia, Clapham Jcn, Clapham High St, Queens
Rd Peckham and back to Canada Water. There is a reverse at Clapham Junction.

I doubt they'll ever actually run it as a full circle though. The ELLE
service pattern already includes Clapham Jcn - Canada Water - Highbury.
(I think the ELLE along with the NLL, WLL and Goblin are all meant to be
combined into one Orbirail franchise in the future).


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...

However, there isn't a southern half to that circle;
there are a couple of orbital lines in south London,
but they don't join up (we'd need a rail link over or
under the river somewhere in Greenwich or
Woolwich, to get you from, say North Woolwich
to Woolwich Dockyard, or Canning Town to, er,
Maze Hill or something, and then some fairly
unlikely junctions and rerouting in south London
to join up at the other end). But it would be cool.


Isn't the East London Line extension the first step towards realising
this? If you want to find the vague plans google for "Orbirail"....

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:38:49 +0000, Sam Holloway
wrote:


So as daft as it sounds, I think really do organise themselves around
train service patterns!


When the work at Blackfriars for Thameslink started, I remember the
Orpington Area Manager saying that it was going to be one of the
biggest white elephants ever. That the number of people travelling
from places like Catford or Croydon to Cricklewood or Mill Hill was
miniscule.

Then Thameslink became reality, people living in Catford found they
*could* apply for a job in Mill Hill (and vice versa) and traffic
rose beyond all expectations.

So it's not daft, and you're right.
--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com

Dave Arquati wrote in message ...
TheOneKEA wrote:
"PS" wrote in message ...

Just a passer-by curious Hong-Konger's words:

I am always curious about why there's no lines like "Hyper Outer Circle"
nowadays. Maybe linking up Finchley, Hendon, Neasden and reaching
Willesden may be a funny idea after all.


Are you suggesting something like the Circle Line in Zones 3 and 4?

Even though such a line would be completely impossible to do, I could
see it running in a complete circle around London, starting at
Richmond and passing through Wimbledon, Vauxhall, Surrey Quays,
Mudchute, Canning Town, Barking, Leytonstone, Walthamstow Central,
Wood Green, East Finchley, Brent Cross, Wembley Park, South Kenton,
Alperton, and Hounslow Central, and eventually returning to Richmond.

But it would be almost impossible to do.


Not at all... once the ELL extensions are complete (that is, of course,
if they ever get started properly) then there will be an extremely easy
route available via Canada Water, Hoxton, Highbury, Camden Road, West
Hampstead, Willesden Jcn, Olympia, Clapham Jcn, Clapham High St, Queens
Rd Peckham and back to Canada Water. There is a reverse at Clapham Junction.

I doubt they'll ever actually run it as a full circle though. The ELLE
service pattern already includes Clapham Jcn - Canada Water - Highbury.
(I think the ELLE along with the NLL, WLL and Goblin are all meant to be
combined into one Orbirail franchise in the future).

Wow, interesting. It would be a great way to avoid Zone 1 during the
rush hour, and it would be a godsend if the Olympics ever came to
London.

Once the East London line is connected to the old North London NR
route, and services are running between Highbury & Islington thru
Whitechapel to Canada Water and beyond, how much longer would it take
for a Hyper Circle Line to appear?

Brad