In message , JNugent
writes
On 08/11/2012 18:52, Ian Jackson wrote:

JNugent writes:

There are also:

- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),

Point of information:
The Tyne Tunnel was never the A1. The A1 was the road over the Tyne Bridge.
The Western Bypass is now the A1.

The A1 was routed through the Tyne Tunnel for a while in the 1970s. It
was re-routed onto the western route when that was completed. Though
I've never been in that area very much, I remember driving the tunnel
route on my way to Berwick, c. 1973.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A19_road

QUOTE:
"At Testo's Roundabout with the A184 (for Gateshead and The Boldons),
the A19 originally ended as the A1 took over to run through the Tyne
Tunnel, before that classification became assigned to the Newcastle
Western Bypass from the Angel of the North to Kingston Park."


http://www.pathetic.org.uk/current/a194m/

QUOTE:
[ A194(M):]
"How did that work then?

Well, it's all about the movement of the A1 though Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
When this motorway was constructed, the A1 ran straight through the
city centre, and so peeled off the motorway, leaving the A194(M) pretty
much the same as it is today. Then, the A1 was diverted to the east via
the Tyne Tunnel - and so the A194(M) became just a part of the A1(M).
Finally, the Western Bypass was completed, and the A1 was diverted that
side of the city and so the A194(M) was restored!"

I reluctantly concede that this information might just be true -
although I doubt that anyone - unless they lived just northeast of
Newcastle - travelling from God's Own Country (Northumberland) to the
Darkest Benighted South, would normally have used the Tyne Tunnel. By
the 70s, there was T Dan Smith's perfectly good urban motorway that
whisked you straight from the Town Moor down to the Tyne Bridge
(bypassing Northumberland Street). I always assumed that this was still
part of the A1. I'm pretty sure that at Wideopen (on the A1, just north
of Newcastle), the sign for the Tyne Tunnel (and the ferry to Bergen)
always indicated the road as being the A19.
--
Ian

In message , Anthony Polson
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , JNugent
writes

There are also:
- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),

Point of information:
The Tyne Tunnel was never the A1. The A1 was the road over the Tyne
Bridge. The Western Bypass is now the A1.


Point of information: The Tyne Tunnel *was* intended to be on the A1.

The road we now know as the A19 was intended to be the new A1,
replacing the original A1 which went through the centre of Newcastle.
The intention was to commission the first of two bores under the Tyne,
at which point the new road would open throughout, then build the
second bore as traffic built up.

The plan fell apart when construction of the first bore ran into
problems resulting in a long-delayed completion at a cost vastly
greater than the original budget. It was then realised that building
a second bore alongside using the same deep tunnelling techniques was
almost certain to prove impracticable.

Leaving the A1 running through Newcastle could not be tolerated. So,
at that point, re-routing the A1 along what is now the Western Bypass
alignment was considered to be the best option. The A19 was left as
an arterial road with just a single bore under the Tyne.

Of course the Western Bypass got busier and congestion became severe.

And of course, being the main (only?) access to Metro shopping centre
hardly helps with the congestion problem.

So a proposal was mooted to build a second tunnel under the Tyne using
a completely different technique. Instead of boring a tunnel through
the problematic rock, a trench would be dredged in the river and
prefabricated tubes floated into it and joined underwater.

This is called an "immersed tube tunnel". Previous UK examples
included the A55 Conwy Tunnel in North Wales and the A289 Medway
Tunnel between Chatham Dockyard and the Wainscott Bypass in Kent.

The Tyne Tunnel now has two bores each carrying two lanes of traffic.
There is, however, no intention to revert to the original plan and
apply "A1" to the A19/Tyne Tunnel road system.

So what you're saying is that the Tyne Tunnel never actually got to be
the A1 - which would explain why I have no recollection of it being so!
--
Ian

On 08/11/2012 23:31, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Anthony Polson
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , JNugent
writes

There are also:
- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),

Point of information:
The Tyne Tunnel was never the A1. The A1 was the road over the Tyne
Bridge. The Western Bypass is now the A1.


Point of information: The Tyne Tunnel *was* intended to be on the A1.

The road we now know as the A19 was intended to be the new A1,
replacing the original A1 which went through the centre of Newcastle.
The intention was to commission the first of two bores under the Tyne,
at which point the new road would open throughout, then build the
second bore as traffic built up.

The plan fell apart when construction of the first bore ran into
problems resulting in a long-delayed completion at a cost vastly
greater than the original budget. It was then realised that building
a second bore alongside using the same deep tunnelling techniques was
almost certain to prove impracticable.

Leaving the A1 running through Newcastle could not be tolerated. So,
at that point, re-routing the A1 along what is now the Western Bypass
alignment was considered to be the best option. The A19 was left as
an arterial road with just a single bore under the Tyne.

Of course the Western Bypass got busier and congestion became severe.

And of course, being the main (only?) access to Metro shopping centre hardly
helps with the congestion problem.

So a proposal was mooted to build a second tunnel under the Tyne using
a completely different technique. Instead of boring a tunnel through
the problematic rock, a trench would be dredged in the river and
prefabricated tubes floated into it and joined underwater.

This is called an "immersed tube tunnel". Previous UK examples
included the A55 Conwy Tunnel in North Wales and the A289 Medway
Tunnel between Chatham Dockyard and the Wainscott Bypass in Kent.

The Tyne Tunnel now has two bores each carrying two lanes of traffic.
There is, however, no intention to revert to the original plan and
apply "A1" to the A19/Tyne Tunnel road system.

So what you're saying is that the Tyne Tunnel never actually got to be the A1
- which would explain why I have no recollection of it being so!

NO... It was the A1 for a while.

On 2012\11\08 21:32, Mizter T wrote:

On 08/11/2012 21:01, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
20:37:30 on Thu, 8 Nov 2012, Clive George
remarked:

JOOI Which ones are missing from my list?

Penrhyndeudraeth, Clifton are two I can think of, but they might not
count as major :-)

There's a toll bridge at Pangbourne, of course. Not exactly a trunk road
though.

There's a toll road in London. Also not exactly a trunk road!

Maybe you're thinking of College Road, Dulwich... and overlooking the
fact that there are something like 21 square kilometres of toll roads in
the centre.

"Clive George" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 08/11/2012 20:20, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:05:27 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:
The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection
that the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which
I've
used in the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

tim's assertion upthread is of course quite daft.

what, the assertion that a well travelled person live Roland should
know the half dozen major tolled roads in the UK?

Surprisingly enough, I've rarely encountered toll roads.

I amazed that he doesn't

JOOI Which ones are missing from my list?

Penrhyndeudraeth,

That was "bought out" many years ago.

And IME, paying it was voluntary anyway :-(

tim

In message , JNugent
writes
On 08/11/2012 23:31, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Anthony Polson
writes







The Tyne Tunnel now has two bores each carrying two lanes of traffic.
There is, however, no intention to revert to the original plan and
apply "A1" to the A19/Tyne Tunnel road system.

So what you're saying is that the Tyne Tunnel never actually got to be the A1
- which would explain why I have no recollection of it being so!

NO... It was the A1 for a while.

Well, maybe at some time (possibly during the building of the Western
Bypass and the re-designation the part of the A1 through Gateshead the
A167) someone decided to call the Tyne Tunnel itself the A1, However, I
doubt if any of the roads connecting to the TT were called the A1. As
I've said, heading south on the A1 from the north side of Newcastle, I'm
pretty sure that the eastwards turn-off for the Tyne Tunnel and the
Bergen Ferry terminal said A19. Heading north, just after the Washington
services, the eastwards turn-off was the A194 or A194M.
--
Ian

In article ,
(Ian Jackson) wrote:

In message , JNugent
writes
On 08/11/2012 23:31, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Anthony Polson
writes

The Tyne Tunnel now has two bores each carrying two lanes of traffic.
There is, however, no intention to revert to the original plan and
apply "A1" to the A19/Tyne Tunnel road system.

So what you're saying is that the Tyne Tunnel never actually got to be
the A1 - which would explain why I have no recollection of it being so!

NO... It was the A1 for a while.

Well, maybe at some time (possibly during the building of the Western
Bypass and the re-designation the part of the A1 through Gateshead
the A167) someone decided to call the Tyne Tunnel itself the A1,
However, I doubt if any of the roads connecting to the TT were called
the A1. As I've said, heading south on the A1 from the north side of
Newcastle, I'm pretty sure that the eastwards turn-off for the Tyne
Tunnel and the Bergen Ferry terminal said A19. Heading north, just
after the Washington services, the eastwards turn-off was the A194 or
A194M.

My sister-in-law's family lived in Boldon Colliery and I'm sure I saw roads
round there signposted as A1 on at least one visit in the 1970s or 1980s.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 19:05:27 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:
The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection
that the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which
I've
used in the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

tim's assertion upthread is of course quite daft.

what, the assertion that a well travelled person live Roland should know
the half dozen major tolled roads in the UK?

Surprisingly enough, I've rarely encountered toll roads.

I amazed that he doesn't

JOOI Which ones are missing from my list?

You missed off the Tamar crossing(s) as ones on major trunk routes.

You also missed the Mersey and Tyne tunnels, but TBH these aren't roads that
are going to appear in long distance travel routes.

There are also lots of little ones, but even I get surprised by those, such
as when I crossed the Dunham Toll Bridge on the A57 earlier this year

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...


No, I am registered with too many things already (keeping them up to date
with changes of address and card details is a significant issue).

For one toll every couple of years, it's not a useful exercise.

If things go the way I suspect that they will, it will be a lot more than
one toll every 2 years

(Note that, if I am right, I will be no more pleased about this than
anybody else is)

tim

On 09/11/2012 01:13, Basil Jet wrote:

On 2012\11\08 21:32, Mizter T wrote:

On 08/11/2012 21:01, Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
There's a toll bridge at Pangbourne, of course. Not exactly a trunk road
though.

There's a toll road in London. Also not exactly a trunk road!

Maybe you're thinking of College Road, Dulwich...[...]

I am.

For those who might be interested:
http://www.dulwichestate.co.uk/tollgate/history-and-operation
and
http://citytransport.info/Fee.htm

[...] and overlooking the
fact that there are something like 21 square kilometres of toll roads in
the centre.

Slightly different thing, though I guess one could have a terminological
merry go round of a discussion based on that point!