On 08/11/2012 14:47, Anthony Polson wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first
time in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the
charging arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a
tolled road, I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).


It should have been free.

The concession to design, build, and finance the bridge and operate
the whole crossing including the tunnels included a toll charge to
fund the new construction. The concession was to end at a defined
point based on toll revenue paying off the debt. From that point
onwards, no toll would be charged.

The concession has now ended and the crossing has reverted to public
ownership. So it should be free, but isn't because the government has
decided to use it to raise revenue for other things. Not only did the
toll charges remain in place after handover, they were recently raised
to £2.00 per car.

"The government" as mentioned above being the Labour government under Blair
and Broon, with the PR job being handled by one Steve Ladyman (Labour ex-MP
for South Thanet - a well-deserved 2010 defeat).

In message , JNugent
writes





There are also:



- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),

Point of information:
The Tyne Tunnel was never the A1. The A1 was the road over the Tyne
Bridge. The Western Bypass is now the A1.





--
Ian

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:38:50 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:

And if it was about a toll bridge the other end of the country I'd
probably have ignored/forgotten it already.

So as a mature adult who's lived all over the country you can't name all
of the tolled parts of trunk roads in the UK then.

I don't believe you

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first
time in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the
charging arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a
tolled road, I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).

but you did know that you might expect to pay a toll


The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection that
the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which I've used
in the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

So you do know that you need to check about paying a toll

How much easier it would be if there were one national scheme that you
registered with that meant that you didn't (need to check)

BTW I believe that the Forth bridge is now free.

tim


--
Roland Perry

"Anthony Polson" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first
time in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the
charging arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a
tolled road, I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).


It should have been free.

The concession to design, build, and finance the bridge and operate
the whole crossing including the tunnels included a toll charge to
fund the new construction. The concession was to end at a defined
point based on toll revenue paying off the debt. From that point
onwards, no toll would be charged.

The concession has now ended and the crossing has reverted to public
ownership. So it should be free, but isn't because the government has
decided to use it to raise revenue for other things. Not only did the
toll charges remain in place after handover, they were recently raised
to £2.00 per car.

One of the things that they are collecting money for is a third crossing

tim

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 08/11/2012 13:45, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 13:38:50 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:

And if it was about a toll bridge the other end of the country I'd
probably have ignored/forgotten it already.

So as a mature adult who's lived all over the country you can't name
all of the tolled parts of trunk roads in the UK then.

I don't believe you

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first
time in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the
charging arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a
tolled road, I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).

The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection
that the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which I've
used in the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

tim's assertion upthread is of course quite daft.

what, the assertion that a well travelled person live Roland should know the
half dozen major tolled roads in the UK?

I amazed that he doesn't

tim

In message , tim.....
writes

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:38:50 on Thu, 8
Nov 2012, tim..... remarked:

And if it was about a toll bridge the other end of the country I'd
probably have ignored/forgotten it already.

So as a mature adult who's lived all over the country you can't name
all of the tolled parts of trunk roads in the UK then.

I don't believe you

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the
first time in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so
what the charging arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was
expecting (for a tolled road, I'd have been just as happy if it had
been free).

but you did know that you might expect to pay a toll


The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection
that the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which
I've used in the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

So you do know that you need to check about paying a toll

How much easier it would be if there were one national scheme that you
registered with that meant that you didn't (need to check)

BTW I believe that the Forth bridge is now free.

It's about time we stopped this pussyfooting about, and make all toll
bridges/tunnels free. If money is needed, simply add it to the VED.
--
Ian

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 08/11/2012 13:45, Roland Perry wrote:

tim..... remarked:

And if it was about a toll bridge the other end of the country I'd
probably have ignored/forgotten it already.

So as a mature adult who's lived all over the country you can't name all
of
the tolled parts of trunk roads in the UK then.
I don't believe you

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first
time
in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the
charging
arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a tolled
road,
I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).

The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection
that
the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which I've used
in
the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

There are also:

- the Mersey Tunnels (the newer one now apparently numbered A59),
- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),
- Erskine Bridge (A898),
- Tay Bridge (A92),
- Saltash Bridge (A38).

Can't remember whether the Kincardine Bridge (A871) has a toll.

not in Scotland since Oct 2008 (I'm amazed that it was that long ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7235131.stm

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 08/11/2012 12:17, tim..... wrote:

"Phil" wrote in message
...
"tim....." writes:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 06/11/2012 14:58, tim..... wrote:

ISTM that if we are to have a database of registrations of car number
plates to credit/debit card accounts for post payment of tolls
there should
be one national database for every toll that is collected (by a
government
agency) this way (not a separate one for Dartford and another one for
London CC etc), so it will be easy for anyone who thinks that they
might
want to use a tolled road somewhere in the country to know that
they ought
to register, just in case.

That is about 20% of the population.

So the only people who it won't work for a

a) people who want to cheat the system by driving through and not
paying

b) A small section of the population who really didn't get to hear
about it.

c) almost everybody.

don't be stupid.

Why stupid, most people do not use any sort of toll road on a regular
basis. And many occasional users of the Dartford Crossing are not going
home that day and any internet payment is likely to incur data roaming
charges.

But even those that don't use it know of its existence and see news items
about it

Most won't. Even if they do, most will not want to use a toll road
somewhere in the country before they change their cars or credit cards.

So they won't register to do so then, will they?

Where has everyone got this idea from that I am suggesting compulsory
registration (the compulsion to use is on the part of the operators, not
drivers)

tim

On 08/11/2012 17:04, Huge wrote:
On 2012-11-08, Clive George wrote:
On 08/11/2012 15:38, Huge wrote:

The concession has now ended and the crossing has reverted to public
ownership. So it should be free, but isn't because the government has
decided to use it to raise revenue for other things. Not only did the
toll charges remain in place after handover, they were recently raised
to £2.00 per car.

At least they don't charge for trailers.

They certainly used to - double the price.

Well, they didn't on the 14th April as I went too and from Lydden Hill
in Kent.

My experience was about 20 years ago :-)

On 08/11/2012 18:52, Ian Jackson wrote:

JNugent writes:

There are also:

- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),

Point of information:
The Tyne Tunnel was never the A1. The A1 was the road over the Tyne Bridge.
The Western Bypass is now the A1.

The A1 was routed through the Tyne Tunnel for a while in the 1970s. It was
re-routed onto the western route when that was completed. Though I've never
been in that area very much, I remember driving the tunnel route on my way to
Berwick, c. 1973.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A19_road

QUOTE:
"At Testo's Roundabout with the A184 (for Gateshead and The Boldons), the A19
originally ended as the A1 took over to run through the Tyne Tunnel, before
that classification became assigned to the Newcastle Western Bypass from the
Angel of the North to Kingston Park."


http://www.pathetic.org.uk/current/a194m/

QUOTE:
[ A194(M):]
"How did that work then?

Well, it's all about the movement of the A1 though Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
When this motorway was constructed, the A1 ran straight through the city
centre, and so peeled off the motorway, leaving the A194(M) pretty much the
same as it is today. Then, the A1 was diverted to the east via the Tyne
Tunnel - and so the A194(M) became just a part of the A1(M). Finally, the
Western Bypass was completed, and the A1 was diverted that side of the city
and so the A194(M) was restored!"