On 26/06/2014 00:51, Mizter T wrote:

On 25/06/2014 23:00, wrote:
What are the plans for expanding contactless into other
cities or further afield on NR?

What plans?

(That's the answer, BTW.)

Figured.

Anybody else in Europe working on this? I know that one town in Norway
is working on this, BTW.

On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

The only other scheme was First Group's move into smartcards for its
buses - that scheme was based on bank card acceptance first plus ITSO
for concessionary tickets. However progress has been very slow and I
don't know if they even have a trial area operating.

What is odd is that the technology should be very straightforward
given there are known standards and a competitive supplier base. There
must be horrendous issues with company processes, security and
deployment issues given how incredibly slow the progress is with so
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".


Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on introducing
ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to contactless?

On 26/06/2014 08:12, Mizter T wrote:

On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

FWIW, Merseyrail now accepts payments for paper tickets by contactless
card:

http://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/ticket-information/contactless-payment.aspx


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-24794486

http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/it-business/3512283/merseyrail-completes-deployment-of-contactless-ticket-payment-systems/


http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/merseyrail-introduces-contactless-payment


The latter two articles make it clear that this is contactless payment
being added as an option to ticket offices and to TVMs (initially at the
former, with the latter following later) - so a much more conventional
deployment of the technology compared to London.

(I can see a quite delightful scope for confusion should TVMs and ticket
offices in London start accepting contactless cards as a means of paying
for conventional paper tickets!)

Not the same as simply using it to enter and exit the system. I can pay
for my lunch with contactless.

On 26/06/2014 16:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:20:47 on Thu, 26
Jun 2014, tim..... remarked:
It certainly seems reasonable that the reader should be
"intelligent" and look for:

Freedom pass
Oyster with relevant season
Oyster with PAYG balance

before randomly selecting debiting your CC

Even if it can't (for whatever technical reason TfL can think of)
actually intelligently charge the correct card from the above list ,
it should certainly decide not to charge the CC if one of the others
is found.

It can't, and doesn't,

I know that it doesn't (that's almost a given)

but I don't see that it can't.

do all that in the short interval it has available.

So extending that window is a worse use of time that having pax stand
at the barrier for 30 seconds whilst he fusses about which card to use?

The speed of operating gates has always been fundamental for TfL, even
though I believe they've had to sacrifice a little to accommodate
contactless CCs at all.

I myself have noticed that there is a slight delay at the gates when
using contactless -- just a little less than a second.

Free-standing readers definitely take more time, however -- something
along the lines of: "Erm, okay." The same applies with route validators,
such as at Stratford.

Perhaps that will change over time?

On 26/06/2014 10:17, tim..... wrote:


"Scott" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 20:48:45 +0100, (Mark Bestley)
wrote:

Scott wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 :
Issue 04

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted

Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless
technology
risk

How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the
risks
vs how many have been discovered and reported ?

I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed
this:

http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash

= = = =

Card clash

Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards
could
cause card clash.


This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital
occasionally.

Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the
extra holders I need now?

I thought Oyster card holders were issued free of charge.

you can't put you non-Oyster card in an Oyster wallet. You'd never know
which was which

tim


I do.

wrote in message ...
On 26/06/2014 00:51, Mizter T wrote:

On 25/06/2014 23:00, wrote:
What are the plans for expanding contactless into other
cities or further afield on NR?

What plans?

(That's the answer, BTW.)

Figured.

Anybody else in Europe working on this? I know that one town in Norway is
working on this, BTW.

Here in Germany, I don't even know of a tarifverbund working on implementing
transit only stored value cards

They all seem to see SMS tickets and print at home as the future

Though the loss in the courts when Hannover tried to implement a system of
"card purchases only" at tram stops may have something to do with that.

tim

wrote in message ...
On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

The only other scheme was First Group's move into smartcards for its
buses - that scheme was based on bank card acceptance first plus ITSO
for concessionary tickets. However progress has been very slow and I
don't know if they even have a trial area operating.

What is odd is that the technology should be very straightforward
given there are known standards and a competitive supplier base. There
must be horrendous issues with company processes, security and
deployment issues given how incredibly slow the progress is with so
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".


Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on introducing
ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to contactless?

the comment from others suggest that that wont be happening, any time soon

tim

"tim....." wrote

Except for ITSO concession cards. Stagecoach have implemented limited
smartcard facilities and handle bus passes automatically, as do Whippet
round here.

I though all local buses were supposed to handle oldies bus passes
electronically - it's TfL who are behind the curve on this one.

Certainly all in Kent and Hants do

"all" ?

No requirement for electronic acceptance at all.

I note that North Surrey have 10 operators(most very small) + TFL. The only
one that accepts National bus pass touches is Arriva



--
Mike D

On 26/06/2014 22:47, tim..... wrote:


wrote in message ...
On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

The only other scheme was First Group's move into smartcards for its
buses - that scheme was based on bank card acceptance first plus ITSO
for concessionary tickets. However progress has been very slow and I
don't know if they even have a trial area operating.

What is odd is that the technology should be very straightforward
given there are known standards and a competitive supplier base. There
must be horrendous issues with company processes, security and
deployment issues given how incredibly slow the progress is with so
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".


Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on
introducing ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to contactless?

the comment from others suggest that that wont be happening, any time soon

tim


It will eventually, however.

In article , () wrote:

Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on
introducing ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to
contactless?

You might think so but this is a project run by a government committee we're
talking about.

--
Colin Rosenstiel