In article , (tim...)
wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message

al-september.org...
bob wrote:

I think the true motivation becomes clear if you read it as
minicab = Uber.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37038864

Quote:

Transport bosses have defended new regulations requiring private hire
drivers to pass a test in English, following criticism from Uber.

The company said the exam would put drivers out of work.

From 1 October, Transport for London (TfL) will require the
qualification of licence applicants from countries where English is not
the majority language.

It said the new rule had strong public support and was less stringent
than that imposed on black-cab drivers.
The new rules will apply to anyone seeking a new licence or a licence
renewal.

Initial proposals had called for only proficiency in spoken English, but
the final draft requires, among other criteria, at least an intermediate
language qualification.

Besides the spoken portion, the exam also tests reading, writing and
listening skills.

It is referred to as the "B1" level on the Common European Framework of
Reference for Languages and is equivalent to the level the national
curriculum in England expects of children aged nine to 11 years.

In their first language, not in a second one

After 6 years of lessons, I still hadn't achieved that level in
French aged 16 (and I wasn't alone in that)
Though I will admit it's easier to learn a foreign language when you
get to practice it in the real world with fluent speakers, instead of
just in a classroom with people who are no better than you

You'd have done better spending time in a French-speaking country speaking
the language. I did (French and later Portuguese).

But, reaching conversation level in a second language is still not a
slam-dunk, some people never manage it, however hard they try.

Then they will have to accept limits on their job options if they don't have
the necessary skills. The rest of us have to do that in other respects.

Though none of that is to say that I think the test isn't appropriate
for Taxi drivers. I do think that they should be able to master
conversational English, if they are targeting English speaking
passengers.

Drivers need to understand what their hirers are saying and sufficiently
well to meet their requests. That requires a degree of understanding of
English not always available and beyond simple speaking ability is needed.

When I chaired the local licensing committee I was shocked how bad was the
English of some drivers coming before us for disciplinary hearings. While I
could understand the need for interpreters for the complex process of a
quasi-legal hearing, some drivers still couldn't understand simple factual
questions from councillors and give straight intelligible replies.

Cambridge removed the limit on the number of taxi licences in 2001. We
preferred to raise standards of vehicles (mostly vis a vis emissions) and
drivers rather than crudely limit numbers.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 11/08/2016 15:56, wrote:
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

"Someone Somewhere" wrote in message
...
On 11/08/2016 09:13, Robin9 wrote:

That Uber don't like these new requirements and have prepared
a ready-made email for their drivers to send to TfL indicates three
things:

1) A lot of Uber drivers don't speak English very well;
2) Taking back in house the testing of private hire drivers and
setting even a moderate standard will immediately reduce the
number of new entrants;
3) The propaganda put out by the "remain" group that all
immigrants working in this country were exceptionally gifted
people unmatched by any Briton was nonsense.

Why do we want less cabbies (of all types, including black and
private hire) anyway? Most other industries are left to set their
own level of employees and even where people are self-employed the
market is somewhat self-balancing.

because by being a self employed person and "earning" minimum wage
for the minimum number of hours, entitles you to in work benefits.

That may not be very much for as single guy, but bring your family
over and you soon get someone earning 8K a year, "contributing" 300
quid in NI and taxes and then leaching 20 grand a year in benefits.

We can't stop Brits doing this, but we damned well ought to be able
top stop foreigners doing it

20 grand in benefits? Where do you get that rubbish from? The Daily Mail or
The Sun?


I thought it was a bit of an exaggeration, but then I used on online
calculator (www.entitledto.co.uk), claiming I worked 20 hours a week for
8K per annum and was single with 4 kids, living in a band C council
property in Tower Hamlets with a rent of £120 a week.

This is what it came out with:

Initial Tax Credit £14,996.10 £288.39 This figure is based on the income
you received last year. The Tax Credits figure shown below is based on
your current income amount.
Tax Credits £14,996.10 £288.39 Working tax credit and child tax credit.
Council Tax Support £364.52 £6.99 Your full Council Tax bill of £15.30
per week will be reduced to £8.31 per week because of your entitlement
to Council Tax Support. The amount you get can be affected by other
benefits. We have included the amounts we have calculated for Working
Tax Credit (£63.91 per week).
Housing Benefit £4,835.39 £92.99 Your full rent of £120.00 per week will
be reduced by £92.99 per week because of your entitlement to Housing
Benefit. This means you will have to pay £27.01 each week. The amount
you get can be affected by other benefits. We have included the amounts
we have calculated for Working Tax Credit (£63.91 per week).
Child Benefit £3,213.60 £61.80
Total Entitlements £23,409.61 £450.17

So, £23k - even more than was claimed!

In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

*Subject:* Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
*From:* Someone Somewhere
*Date:* Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:17:12 +0100

On 11/08/2016 15:56, wrote:
In article ,
(tim...)
wrote:

"Someone Somewhere" wrote in message
...
On 11/08/2016 09:13, Robin9 wrote:

That Uber don't like these new requirements and have prepared
a ready-made email for their drivers to send to TfL indicates
three
things:

1) A lot of Uber drivers don't speak English very well;
2) Taking back in house the testing of private hire drivers and
setting even a moderate standard will immediately reduce the
number of new entrants;
3) The propaganda put out by the "remain" group that all
immigrants working in this country were exceptionally gifted
people unmatched by any Briton was nonsense.

Why do we want less cabbies (of all types, including black and
private hire) anyway? Most other industries are left to set their
own level of employees and even where people are self-employed the
market is somewhat self-balancing.

because by being a self employed person and "earning" minimum wage
for the minimum number of hours, entitles you to in work benefits.

That may not be very much for as single guy, but bring your family
over and you soon get someone earning 8K a year, "contributing" 300
quid in NI and taxes and then leaching 20 grand a year in benefits.

We can't stop Brits doing this, but we damned well ought to be able
top stop foreigners doing it

20 grand in benefits? Where do you get that rubbish from? The Daily
Mail or
The Sun?


I thought it was a bit of an exaggeration, but then I used on online
calculator (www.entitledto.co.uk), claiming I worked 20 hours a week
for 8K per annum and was single with 4 kids, living in a band C
council property in Tower Hamlets with a rent of £120 a week.

This is what it came out with:

Initial Tax Credit £14,996.10 £288.39 This figure is based on the
income you received last year. The Tax Credits figure shown below is
based on your current income amount. Tax
Credits £14,996.10 £288.39 Working tax credit and child tax
credit.
Council Tax Support £364.52 £6.99 Your full Council Tax bill of
£15.30 per week will be reduced to £8.31 per week because of your
entitlement to Council Tax Support. The amount you get can be
affected by other benefits. We have included the amounts we have
calculated for Working Tax Credit (£63.91 per week). Housing
Benefit £4,835.39 £92.99 Your full rent of £120.00 per week
will be
reduced by £92.99 per week because of your entitlement to Housing
Benefit. This means you will have to pay £27.01 each week. The amount
you get can be affected by other benefits. We have included the
amounts we have calculated for Working Tax Credit (£63.91 per week).
Child Benefit £3,213.60 £61.80
Total Entitlements £23,409.61 £450.17

So, £23k - even more than was claimed!

and falling. When does child benefit beyond 2nd child stop?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In London, minicab drivers are not allowed to refuse guide
dogs. They are allowed to refuse other dogs.

Rumour has it that some Asian drivers refuse even guide dogs.
If this is true, those drivers should lose their licence, although
that would involve the customer making a complaint, TfL
identifying the driver with the co-operation of the cab firm,
and TfL taking a tough line.

tim... wrote:

"Someone Somewhere" wrote in message
...
On 11/08/2016 09:13, Robin9 wrote:

That Uber don't like these new requirements and have prepared
a ready-made email for their drivers to send to TfL indicates three
things:

1) A lot of Uber drivers don't speak English very well;
2) Taking back in house the testing of private hire drivers and
setting even a moderate standard will immediately reduce the
number of new entrants;
3) The propaganda put out by the "remain" group that all
immigrants working in this country were exceptionally gifted
people unmatched by any Briton was nonsense.

Why do we want less cabbies (of all types, including black and private
hire) anyway? Most other industries are left to set their own level of
employees and even where people are self-employed the market is somewhat
self-balancing.

because by being a self employed person and "earning" minimum wage for the
minimum number of hours, entitles you to in work benefits.

That may not be very much for as single guy, but bring your family over and
you soon get someone earning 8K a year, "contributing" 300 quid in NI and
taxes and then leaching 20 grand a year in benefits.

We can't stop Brits doing this, but we damned well ought to be able top stop
foreigners doing it

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about stopping the Brits doing it -
it's the lazy, waste of space scum that won't work for a living that make
that Septic Isle a ********, not the immigrants who do the jobs you're too
lazy to.

On 2016-08-10 19:10:47 +0000, Recliner said:

Transport bosses have defended new regulations requiring private hire
drivers to pass a test in English, following criticism from Uber.

I don't have a problem with that idea. English is the main language
spoken in the UK. I should be able to expect to communicate in English
with any customer facing person I deal with in any industry in the UK,
just as I would expect that if I wanted a job in France I would have to
speak basic, understandable French, and German in Germany etc.

I don't care about where they are from (provided they are here legally)
but I do agree with the principle of not making communication awkward.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2016-08-11 10:32:46 +0000, Someone Somewhere said:

Basically all a driver needs to understand is an address or postcode,
in particular with Uber if there are then problems you can deal with
customer services.

That is inconvenient and should not be necessary. I speak English in
England and expect to be understood by any customer service employee I
deal with in any industry when I do so.

If the claim is that you need a decent level of English to drive in the
UK, then I can think of several areas of London which would suddenly
have a lot less cars on the road if that were to be enacted and
enforced.

I would be fully supportive of it being enforced throughout the UK in
all areas of customer facing[1] employment, e.g. through the work
permit system.

It's not like we're universally swamped at the moment, otherwise why
did Uber want to charge me a surge fare last night?

It's not about being swamped, it's about a basic level of service we
should be able to expect, for safety if nothing else.
Misunderstandings in late night minicabs (whether Uber or not) are
potentially dangerous.

[1] I don't care if the prevailing language in a warehouse is something
other than English, I do care if I can't ask a member of staff a
question without gesturing.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2016-08-11 13:10:24 +0000, tim... said:

Though none of that is to say that I think the test isn't appropriate
for Taxi drivers. I do think that they should be able to master
conversational English, if they are targeting English speaking
passengers.

Unless I have the option to select an English speaking driver from a
minicab company or Uber, that is *every* driver.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2016\08\11 22:04, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-08-10 19:10:47 +0000, Recliner said:

Transport bosses have defended new regulations requiring private hire
drivers to pass a test in English, following criticism from Uber.

I don't have a problem with that idea. English is the main language
spoken in the UK. I should be able to expect to communicate in English
with any customer facing person I deal with in any industry in the UK,
just as I would expect that if I wanted a job in France I would have to
speak basic, understandable French, and German in Germany etc.

I don't care about where they are from (provided they are here legally)
but I do agree with the principle of not making communication awkward.

Except that you have the choice of which company you use, and can
boycott any company that doesn't speak English if you feel so inclined.
If someone wants to set up a minicab company in New Malden with Korean
speaking drivers for Korean speaking passengers, I don't see why they
should be legally compelled to speak English as well.

Your hypothetical company gets into trouble immediately.
If a local person wants a car, does the company turn them
down because they don't speak Korean? That would
constitute discrimination.