On 2017-02-28 11:46:08 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".

It will be *processed using the same system*. The intention is that it
will be used the same way as an Oyster presently is.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2017-02-28 13:38:36 +0000, said:

And also only extracts a day's travel each time, not £20/£40.

Maybe that won't change either.

I doubt it will, duplicating functionality of contactless debit cards
is totally pointless. The Oyster offering is different and may as well
remain different.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:36 -0600
wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:
No, because it has zero credit on it.

Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018. It's
just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held that
will change, from the card itself to the back office system.

With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy system.
Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve gate throughput
at all.

--
Spud

In message , at 14:50:52 on Tue, 28
Feb 2017, Neil Williams remarked:

Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".

It will be *processed using the same system*. The intention is that it
will be used the same way as an Oyster presently is.

Colin very plausibly says not. The records of travel and balance being
held in the backoffice rather than on the card is a substantial
difference.
--
Roland Perry

On 2017-02-28 15:56:04 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message , at 14:50:52 on Tue, 28
Feb 2017, Neil Williams remarked:

Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".

It will be *processed using the same system*. The intention is that it
will be used the same way as an Oyster presently is.

Colin very plausibly says not. The records of travel and balance being
held in the backoffice rather than on the card is a substantial
difference.

You misunderstand.

It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the passenger
is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend it by
travelling.

It will however be back-office processed using the contactless system.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In article , d () wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:36 -0600
wrote:
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:
No, because it has zero credit on it.

Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018.
It's just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held
that will change, from the card itself to the back office system.

With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy
system. Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve
gate throughput at all.

Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2017-02-28 15:56:04 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message , at 14:50:52 on Tue,
28 Feb 2017, Neil Williams
remarked:

Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".

It will be *processed using the same system*. The intention is
that it will be used the same way as an Oyster presently is.

Colin very plausibly says not. The records of travel and balance
being held in the backoffice rather than on the card is a
substantial difference.

You misunderstand.

It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the passenger
is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend it by
travelling.

It will however be back-office processed using the contactless system.

But facilities that can't be handled by Oyster cards now, like weekly
capping and the different way that daily capping is implemented, will change
to work the same way as Contactless does now.

Hence my question about a facility that Oyster can handle but Contactless
can't now, giving railcard discounts. If eligibility for the discount is
going to move from the card to the back office, I can see no good reason why
the same should not happen for Contactless.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 28/02/2017 16:58, wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:36 -0600
wrote:
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:
No, because it has zero credit on it.

Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018.
It's just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held
that will change, from the card itself to the back office system.

With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy
system. Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve
gate throughput at all.

Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?

Moore's law has nothing to do with the speed of communications which
seems to be the limiting factor here - for Oyster the reader reads it,
calculated what needs to be applied and writes it, for Contactless it
reads it, and I believe checks with the back end before allowing it, or
if it doesn't the delay is to do with waking up the NFC chip and
carrying out the relevant authentication steps - again nothing to do
with Moore's law.

On 28/02/2017 09:56, d wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:45:53 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:38:56 on Tue, 28 Feb
2017, d remarked:
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.

Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.

I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of any
journeys made.

I wonder if one will be able to use it in shops?

Probably not, for all the TfL-not-being-a-bank reasons that Oyster can't
be used in shops.

If not there seems to be
scarcely any difference between that and a current auto top up.

It will allow the processing to be done in the back-office, so cleverer
stuff can be done with account-based fare capping, railcards, discounts etc.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

On 28/02/2017 16:58, wrote:
In article , d ()
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:36 -0600
wrote:
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:
No, because it has zero credit on it.

Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018.
It's just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is
held that will change, from the card itself to the back office system.

With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy
system. Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve
gate throughput at all.

Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?

Moore's law has nothing to do with the speed of communications which
seems to be the limiting factor here - for Oyster the reader reads
it, calculated what needs to be applied and writes it, for
Contactless it reads it, and I believe checks with the back end
before allowing it, or if it doesn't the delay is to do with waking
up the NFC chip and carrying out the relevant authentication steps -
again nothing to do with Moore's law.

Everything to do with it, I can assure you.

--
Colin Rosenstiel