OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

Wheelchair users and free travel - As far as I am aware ALL passengers must
have a ticket or other ''authority to travel''. A person with limited
mobility would automatically qualify for a Disabled designated Freedom Pass
allowing travel on all TfL facilities at any time (no time restrictions).

However, as there is no universal agreement between boroughs, counties or
the state about discounted travel, a person from outside London wheelchair
bound or even blind does not qualify for free or discounted travel on TfL
services (unless they hold a Disabled railcard that gives travelcards Zone
1-6D for around £4.50).

In addition there is no concession to helpers or carers and they must pay
the full fare.

But of course what happens in practice is often very different and
''authority to travel'' is obtained at the barrier at no cost - but not
always and nor should staff be put under pressure to do so.
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
In article ,
(Farlie A) wrote:

Additonaly as I understand it correctly the former lift shafts at
some stations aren't actually street-platform level in any event.

Most if not all of the original lifts, I thought.

Of course if the tube had been properly funded as Metro's in other
countries are then this modernisation work could have been carried out
ages ago. But then this is Britian with a Tresuary that suffers from
acountantitis.

How many other metro systems have full wheelchair access then?
Tyne & Wear Metro and the entire Melbourne Metropolitan railway network
are two.

London will take a *very* Long time to achieve this, though. That
said, it's good to see so many wheelchair accessible buses (even if the
ambulant disabled, if I can use that term) tend to prefer something with
more stanchions.

Incidentally, I was with a wheelchair bound friend in London last week.
The low floor buses were a *real* boon BUT two out of the three we used
had faults which prevented us from using them. The first could have
the centre doors open *or* lower the ramp but not have both at the same
time. The third one (in Whitehall!), lowered the ramp then it became
stuck on the kerb and everyone had to transfer to the (bendi) behind.
When the problem was eventually solve, though, we had a very private
journey to Marylebone in the company of the driver. All the drivers,
incidentally were *very* much amenable but if breakdowns are this common
(are they?) then it compromises the use of the system.

By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs
travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector)
were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One
driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well.
Ideas anyone?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In article HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win,
(SJCWHUK) wrote:

OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

When was the system built?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes

In article HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win,
(SJCWHUK) wrote:

OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

When was the system built?

1950 (i.e. long after most of London's tube system).

--
Paul Terry

"SJCWHUK" typed


OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

Wheelchair users and free travel - As far as I am aware ALL passengers must
have a ticket or other ''authority to travel''.

The under 5s don't need a ticket...

A person with limited
mobility would automatically qualify for a Disabled designated Freedom Pass
allowing travel on all TfL facilities at any time (no time restrictions).

It's not *that* automatic. I'm sure wheelchair users would qualify, but
it's necessary to apply completing the necessary forms.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

"SJCWHUK" wrote in message
news:HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win...
OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

But is it a tube?

The London Underground is described as a tube because the deep level trains
run through a 12ft od pipe into which the train has been designed to fit
using as much of the space as possible. The Met and the District run in
shallow "cut and cover" (mostly) tunnels with the two roads side by side. I
suspect the Stockholm and others bear more resemblance to the latter that to
the tube railways proper.

The primary concern with allowing wheelchairs onto the Underground,
specifically the tube lines, is getting them out in the event of an
emergency. The interconnecting doors between cars aren't wide enough nor is
the door in the front of the train allowing emergency access to the track
permitting emergency evacuation along the track to the next station.

On the Met and District evacuation can be done by brining another train to a
stop on the adjacent road and creating a bridge between the two for people
to walk across using one door on each train. This is still unsafe for
wheelchair users since there remains the possibility of falling between the
trains onto the track.

In that scenario the wheelchair user presents a real danger to other
passengers as well as to themselves.

Before anyone asks, I have had to use a wheelchair and I still have
difficulty walking, I have also been LT traincrew so can see the problem
from both sides.

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
"SJCWHUK" wrote in message
news:HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win...

OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the
list of tube networks with disabled access.

But is it a tube?

The London Underground is described as a tube because
the deep level trains run through a 12ft od pipe into which
the train has been designed to fit using as much of the
space as possible. The Met and the District run in shallow
"cut and cover" (mostly) tunnels with the two roads side by
side. I suspect the Stockholm and others bear more
resemblance to the latter that to the tube railways proper.

Some or most of the Stockholm system was created by blasting tunnels through
solid rock, and the running tunnels and platform tunnels have largely been
left as bare rock.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland wrote:

Some or most of the Stockholm system was created by blasting tunnels
through solid rock, and the running tunnels and platform tunnels have
largely been left as bare rock.

Whilst that is of interest it doesn't answer the question of how the tracks
are arranged and how wheelchair users are dealt with in an emergency.

Is there anyone who knows?

From: "Brimstone"
Date: 09/04/2004 09:18 GMT Standard Time

The primary concern with allowing wheelchairs onto the Underground,
specifically the tube lines, is getting them out in the event of an
emergency. The interconnecting doors between cars aren't wide enough nor is
the door in the front of the train allowing emergency access to the track
permitting emergency evacuation along the track to the next station.

Therefore it is surely the trains that are unsafe and not wheelchair users?
Back in the 1980s London Transport published a pathetic leaflet about disabled
access and concerning wheelchair users and the underground it as good as said
"Bugger off, you're a fire hazard. Why not take a taxi instead". It seems the
same cavalier attitude is still abroad today, even though the world has moved
on and disability awareness has increased (in most places).

The underground people seem to have stuck their head in the sand and hoped
disability access problems would go away. They won't, and they're just about to
get it in the neck for their longstanding negligence - which serves them right.

Acrosticus wrote:
From: "Brimstone"
Date: 09/04/2004 09:18 GMT Standard Time

The primary concern with allowing wheelchairs onto the Underground,
specifically the tube lines, is getting them out in the event of an
emergency. The interconnecting doors between cars aren't wide
enough nor is the door in the front of the train allowing
emergency access to the track permitting emergency evacuation
along the track to the next station.

Therefore it is surely the trains that are unsafe and not
wheelchair users? Back in the 1980s London Transport published a
pathetic leaflet about disabled access and concerning wheelchair
users and the underground it as good as said "Bugger off, you're a
fire hazard. Why not take a taxi instead". It seems the same
cavalier attitude is still abroad today, even though the world has
moved on and disability awareness has increased (in most places).

The underground people seem to have stuck their head in the sand
and hoped disability access problems would go away. They won't, and
they're just about to get it in the neck for their longstanding
negligence - which serves them right.

Complete rubbish. If a wheelchair user needs to access any level other
than ground level, a lift is required. In the event of fire, the lifts
are not available, and people have to use the stairs. In those
circumstances, wheelchair users have to be carried to ground level. The
same applies to tube trains.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:24:04 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Acrosticus wrote:
From: "Brimstone"
Date: 09/04/2004 09:18 GMT Standard Time

The primary concern with allowing wheelchairs onto the Underground,
specifically the tube lines, is getting them out in the event of an
emergency. The interconnecting doors between cars aren't wide
enough nor is the door in the front of the train allowing
emergency access to the track permitting emergency evacuation
along the track to the next station.

Therefore it is surely the trains that are unsafe and not
wheelchair users? Back in the 1980s London Transport published a
pathetic leaflet about disabled access and concerning wheelchair
users and the underground it as good as said "Bugger off, you're a
fire hazard. Why not take a taxi instead". It seems the same
cavalier attitude is still abroad today, even though the world has
moved on and disability awareness has increased (in most places).

The underground people seem to have stuck their head in the sand
and hoped disability access problems would go away. They won't, and
they're just about to get it in the neck for their longstanding
negligence - which serves them right.

Complete rubbish. If a wheelchair user needs to access any level other
than ground level, a lift is required. In the event of fire, the lifts
are not available, and people have to use the stairs. In those
circumstances, wheelchair users have to be carried to ground level. The
same applies to tube trains.


You can design in 'places of safety' where wheelchair users can be
left until the fire brigade rescures them....

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk