Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:46:57 on Thu, 22 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:

Personally, I don't accept the premise that PT has to be self funding,
but we are where we are on that one

Even with these extra 'taxes', it won't be.

All we are arguing about is the amount of subsidy.

Or, more specifically, where the subsidy comes from. In the absence of most
tourists and many commuters, fare revenues won't come close to meeting
operating costs.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 15:28:04 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:46:57 on Thu, 22 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:

Personally, I don't accept the premise that PT has to be self funding,
but we are where we are on that one

Even with these extra 'taxes', it won't be.

All we are arguing about is the amount of subsidy.

Or, more specifically, where the subsidy comes from. In the absence of most
tourists and many commuters, fare revenues won't come close to meeting
operating costs.

They need to be realistic and scale back the tube services until ridership
goes up again. From my personal experience however the buses are as crowded
as they're allowed to be. Odd how the snowflakes seem to be scared of trains
but not buses.

wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 15:28:04 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:46:57 on Thu, 22 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:

Personally, I don't accept the premise that PT has to be self funding,
but we are where we are on that one

Even with these extra 'taxes', it won't be.

All we are arguing about is the amount of subsidy.

Or, more specifically, where the subsidy comes from. In the absence of most
tourists and many commuters, fare revenues won't come close to meeting
operating costs.

They need to be realistic and scale back the tube services until ridership
goes up again. From my personal experience however the buses are as crowded
as they're allowed to be. Odd how the snowflakes seem to be scared of trains
but not buses.

Yes, I've been on buses lately carrying a lot more than the stated maximum.

On 22/10/2020 17:01, wrote:

goes up again. From my personal experience however the buses are as crowded
as they're allowed to be. Odd how the snowflakes seem to be scared of trains
but not buses.


Or that people who used trains have more alternatives (work from home,
drive, etc)

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

The TfL support deal was done yesterday just before the midnight
deadline, and doesn't include extending the Congestion Charge zone, but
keeps the current temporary arrangements in place.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
The TfL support deal was done yesterday just before the midnight
deadline, and doesn't include extending the Congestion Charge zone, but
keeps the current temporary arrangements in place.

Thanks, that's good news. It's been rather lost in all the lockdown
announcements.

Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
The TfL support deal was done yesterday just before the midnight
deadline, and doesn't include extending the Congestion Charge zone, but
keeps the current temporary arrangements in place.

Thanks, that's good news. It's been rather lost in all the lockdown
announcements.


The BBC report:

Transport for London (TfL) has secured a £1.8bn government bailout, to keep
Tube and bus services running until March 2021.

The funding will ensure TfL can address its financial shortfall due to the
loss of passengers as a result of Covid-19.

The exact amount of money involved is subject to passenger revenue in the
coming months.

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said the deal was "not ideal" but he fought hard
against the "very worst" proposals.

"The only reason TfL needs government support is because its fares income
has almost dried up since March," he added.

Without a bailout the network would be forced to issue a Section 114 order,
the equivalent of bankruptcy for a public company.

Discussions on longer-term sustainable funding continue, TfL said.

Amendments to the Congestion Charge introduced in June as part of a
previous bailout - a 30% increase in the fee and longer operating hours -
will remain in place due to the new deal.

Mr Khan said last month the government wanted TfL to extend the charging
zone to the North and South Circular roads, covering around four million
more Londoners.

TfL Commissioner Andy Byford said: "The agreement will enable TfL to
continue to support the capital for the remainder of the financial year as
discussions on longer-term sustainable funding continue.
"Reaching this agreement with the government allows us to help London
through this next phase of the pandemic.

"We will continue to work with the mayor and the government on our
longer-term funding needs."

The government has been contacted for comment.

TfL said it would receive a "core amount of £1bn", consisting of a £905m
grant and £95m of borrowing.

Last month Boris Johnson claimed TfL was "effectively bankrupted" before
coronavirus, and proposals to hike charges were "entirely the
responsibility" of Mr Khan.

It costs £600m a month to keep the network running on its current reduced
service.

The lockdown has led to a 95% cut in people using the Tube compared to this
time last year. [I think that's out of date.]

The number of bus passengers has also dropped, by 85%, and customers no
longer have to tap-in to pay for rides as part of measures to protect
drivers. [That is no long true, and buses don't look quite that empty now.]

Most TfL services are still running, but 7,000 staff - about 25% of the
workforce - have been furloughed to cut costs. [I hadn't realised TfL had
furloughed so many staff. I wonder if that is also out of date?]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54768723

—————

On 01/11/2020 10:01, Recliner wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
The TfL support deal was done yesterday just before the midnight
deadline, and doesn't include extending the Congestion Charge zone, but
keeps the current temporary arrangements in place.

Thanks, that's good news. It's been rather lost in all the lockdown
announcements.


The BBC report:

Transport for London (TfL) has secured a £1.8bn government bailout, to keep
Tube and bus services running until March 2021.

The funding will ensure TfL can address its financial shortfall due to the
loss of passengers as a result of Covid-19.


Now Khan can hope to sit it out until Boris resigns in the New Year.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2020 10:01, Recliner wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
The TfL support deal was done yesterday just before the midnight
deadline, and doesn't include extending the Congestion Charge zone, but
keeps the current temporary arrangements in place.

Thanks, that's good news. It's been rather lost in all the lockdown
announcements.


The BBC report:

Transport for London (TfL) has secured a £1.8bn government bailout, to keep
Tube and bus services running until March 2021.

The funding will ensure TfL can address its financial shortfall due to the
loss of passengers as a result of Covid-19.


Now Khan can hope to sit it out until Boris resigns in the New Year.


Yes, good point, though my guess is that Boris will aim to hang on for
slightly longer than that. But he must be enviously looking at the huge
amounts Theresa May is earning for her speeches. Imagine — people actually
paying to listen to Theresa May! And, unlike Boris, she doesn't even need
the money: no kids, no divorces, well-paid spouse, no expensive hobbies or
holidays.

On 01/11/2020 10:43, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2020 10:01, Recliner wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
The TfL support deal was done yesterday just before the midnight
deadline, and doesn't include extending the Congestion Charge zone, but
keeps the current temporary arrangements in place.

Thanks, that's good news. It's been rather lost in all the lockdown
announcements.


The BBC report:

Transport for London (TfL) has secured a £1.8bn government bailout, to keep
Tube and bus services running until March 2021.

The funding will ensure TfL can address its financial shortfall due to the
loss of passengers as a result of Covid-19.


Now Khan can hope to sit it out until Boris resigns in the New Year.


Yes, good point, though my guess is that Boris will aim to hang on for
slightly longer than that.

That depends on the ERG…

But he must be enviously looking at the huge
amounts Theresa May is earning for her speeches. Imagine — people actually
paying to listen to Theresa May!

No accounting for taste!

And, unlike Boris, she doesn't even need
the money: no kids, no divorces, well-paid spouse, no expensive hobbies or
holidays.


Have you seen her mortgage?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.