Paul Cummins wrote:
In article , (David
Splett) wrote:

Indeed. I find it amazing how much time people will devote to
avoiding being caught by speed cameras, surely outweighing any time
saved by being able to drive faster.

I think it's something to do with the fact that 80% of British dual
carriageways are of a better standard that German Autobahnen, but have
slower, and often unreasonably slower, speed limits.

How am I endangering anyone by doing 80-90 down the M6 at 3am on a
clear morning?

What has breaking the speed limit got to do with safety?

"loobyloo" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:43:19 +0000 (UTC), Paul Scott wrote:

I suppose one radical solution would be to obey the road traffic laws.

--
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *

Arrrgh listen to old self righteousness Lardface out there, - Obey the road
traffic laws? oh sure and thats why the overwhelming majority of us *real*
people out there find the wretched things things anything but a safety
measure and purely as a device to earn revenue? Easy money in other words.
Most Dual Carriageway speed limits should be removed anyway cos no
pedestrians are involved usually most are barrier proofed with footbridges
or traffic lights these days. So why even HAVE a 50 say for instance
suddenly turn into a 40 or even 30 on a Dual Carriageway with perfectly good
barriers to safeguard the pedestrians? Reason? to catch the motorists out,
thats what.

redtube

"redtube" wrote in message
...

"loobyloo" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:43:19 +0000 (UTC), Paul Scott wrote:

I suppose one radical solution would be to obey the road traffic laws.

--
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *

Arrrgh listen to old self righteousness Lardface out there, - Obey the
road
traffic laws? oh sure and thats why the overwhelming majority of us *real*
people out there find the wretched things things anything but a safety
measure and purely as a device to earn revenue? Easy money in other words.
Most Dual Carriageway speed limits should be removed anyway cos no
pedestrians are involved usually most are barrier proofed with footbridges
or traffic lights these days. So why even HAVE a 50 say for instance
suddenly turn into a 40 or even 30 on a Dual Carriageway with perfectly
good
barriers to safeguard the pedestrians? Reason? to catch the motorists out,
thats what.

Yes, a lot of main roads near where I live (Oxfordshire) have recently been
downgraded to 50 (or are about to be downgraded) "to reduce the number of
traffic accidents". This is solving the right problem in the wrong way: to
avoid collisions, you need to penalise the person who *causes* the accident,
typically a driver who is on a minor road who pulls out into fast-moving
traffic without assessing its speed or the pedestrian who crosses the road
without regard for the traffic, rather than penalising (by imposing a
draconian speed limit) the driver who is in the right and who has priority.

Children are a special case, and a 40, 30 or even 20 limit is sensible (with
the level set according to the amount of segregation between pavement and
road) but otherwise the onus is on the pedestrians or the drivers on side
roads to make sure that they do not cause accidents. Any fool can reduce
*the effect of* accidents by cutting speed limits, but driver/pedestrian
training is the clever solution.

The A44 Oxford-Evesham road and the A329 Stadhampton to Thame road are cases
in point: the main road where it's safe to do 60 or 70 on the straight carry
a 50 limit, whereas the narrow twisty country lanes leading off on either
side, where it's often not safe to go above 40, carry a 60 limit.

The A415 Abingdon to Berinsfield road has a 30 mph limit almost all the way
from Clifton Hampden to Berinsfield, where I would judge 40 on hte bends and
60 on the straights is sensible. There are long-term road-works further west
while a cycle track is being made which mostly merit a reduction from 60 to
40 at worst (apart from the rare times when half the road is coned off) but
a blanket 30 limit has been imposed. Driving at 30 on a road that previously
carried a 60 limit is very hard. Try as I might, I can't keep much below 40
and that feels as if I'm crawling along.

Speed limits should be set according to the highest speed that it is safe to
drive - a 60 limit on a single-track road with harepin bends is simply
taking the ****.

I reckon that the speed limit should be set at the speed that a mythical
"safe, competant driver" would choose to drive at if there were no speed
limits: it's when that driver would choose to drive at 20 mph or more above
the actual limit that you get problems with non-compliance. Penalise the
serious offenders who think it's safe to drive at 100 on a single
carriageway or 60 in a built-up area with parked cars and the likelihood of
children emerging from behind them; don't penalise those who drive at 40 in
a 30 zone where there is good visibility of hazards.

Paul Cummins wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:

I think it's something to do with the fact that 80% of British dual
carriageways are of a better standard that German Autobahnen, but have
slower, and often unreasonably slower, speed limits.

Well, German Autobahnen may have a speed limit of 130 kph, but in my
experience one can almost never go at it - either there's too much
traffic, or there are road works, or it's raining.....

French autoroutes, now..... and you get a much better drive quality - I
can often read on an autoroute, where I certainly can't on the M1 (I've
tried!)

How am I endangering anyone by doing 80-90 down the M6 at 3am on a clear
morning?

Do they actually *have* speed cameras on the M6? Mostly, I've only seen
them on parts of the motorway where the speed is limited to 70 mph for
whatever reason.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

In article ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

I believe the Truvelo system also uses I-R.

Basically, if I-R is being used at all, and it certainly appears to be,
then I cannot see how a reflective spray varnish will help to avoid it.

Truvelo must use Infra red, because to have a forward facing flash would
be dangerous.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

redtube wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:

Reason? to catch the motorists out,
thats what.

Yeah, or perfectly good roads into Brighton, quite safe at 40 mph,
suddenly turning into 30 mph without even telling you until you get
flashed & penalty points (this one's a very sore point in our family!).
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
redtube wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:

Reason? to catch the motorists out,
thats what.

Yeah, or perfectly good roads into Brighton, quite safe at 40 mph,
suddenly turning into 30 mph without even telling you until you get
flashed & penalty points (this one's a very sore point in our family!).

Presumably there must be 30 signs to make the speed limit enforceable, but
they may not be very obvious.

I'd like to see much greater use of 300, 200, 100-yard countdown markers in
advance of speed limits, especially where the change of speed limit is 20 or
more mph - a sort of "Morpeth rules" for cars. With advance warning of
limits (especially where the sign is round a corner or hidden by a hedge
until you're very close) you can plan ahead and simply lift off the power to
slow down gently rather than having to brake - I always try to slow down by
coming off the power if I can, but that's the advanced driver in me ;-)

Martin Underwood ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Yes, a lot of main roads near where I live (Oxfordshire) have recently
been downgraded to 50 (or are about to be downgraded) "to reduce the
number of traffic accidents". This is solving the right problem in the
wrong way: to avoid collisions, you need to penalise the person who
*causes* the accident, typically a driver who is on a minor road who
pulls out into fast-moving traffic without assessing its speed or the
pedestrian who crosses the road without regard for the traffic, rather
than penalising (by imposing a draconian speed limit) the driver who
is in the right and who has priority.

Children are a special case, and a 40, 30 or even 20 limit is sensible
(with the level set according to the amount of segregation between
pavement and road) but otherwise the onus is on the pedestrians or the
drivers on side roads to make sure that they do not cause accidents.
Any fool can reduce *the effect of* accidents by cutting speed limits,
but driver/pedestrian training is the clever solution.

applause

Martin Underwood wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:

Presumably there must be 30 signs to make the speed limit enforceable, but
they may not be very obvious.

I think so - I always do keep an eye out for such things when I'm in the
car (as a non-driver, it's easier for me to navigate & warn of cameras,
speed limits, etc) and I certainly never saw it.

I'd like to see much greater use of 300, 200, 100-yard countdown markers in
advance of speed limits, especially where the change of speed limit is 20 or
more mph - a sort of "Morpeth rules" for cars. With advance warning of
limits (especially where the sign is round a corner or hidden by a hedge
until you're very close) you can plan ahead and simply lift off the power to
slow down gently rather than having to brake - I always try to slow down by
coming off the power if I can, but that's the advanced driver in me ;-)


I think most people who have been driving for any length of time do, no?
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
Martin Underwood wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:

Presumably there must be 30 signs to make the speed limit enforceable, but
they may not be very obvious.

I think so - I always do keep an eye out for such things when I'm in the
car (as a non-driver, it's easier for me to navigate & warn of cameras,
speed limits, etc) and I certainly never saw it.

I'd like to see much greater use of 300, 200, 100-yard countdown markers
in
advance of speed limits, especially where the change of speed limit is 20
or
more mph - a sort of "Morpeth rules" for cars. With advance warning of
limits (especially where the sign is round a corner or hidden by a hedge
until you're very close) you can plan ahead and simply lift off the power
to
slow down gently rather than having to brake - I always try to slow down
by
coming off the power if I can, but that's the advanced driver in me ;-)


I think most people who have been driving for any length of time do, no?

Actually no. Following behind cars, I very often see them brake where I
don't - not because I take the bend any faster but because I've planned
ahead. When I was a passenger with one driver recently I was surreptitiously
watching and his right foot was permanently on either the accelerator or the
brake - he never lifted off the power and just let the car slow down by
friction. Admittedly it was in an automatic and you get less engine braking
with them, but even so... I dread to think how quickly he goes through brake
pads :-(