"CharlesPottins" wrote in message
...

Now if you were to ask my opinion on the tube site, which I've just tried
for information on freedom pass limits (couldn't even find "freedom pass"
with a search, and their "FAQs" page provided no answers), I'd say
"silly" was a euphemism.

Freedom Passes are issued by London Boroughs (or by post offices on their
behalf), not by LU. For information, see
http://www.freedompass.org/info.html.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Robert Woolley writes
Now if you were to ask my opinion on the tube site, which I've just tried for
information on freedom pass limits (couldn't even find "freedom pass" with a
search, and their "FAQs" page provided no answers), I'd say "silly" was a
euphemism.

Correct me if this wrong, but isn't Freedom Pass managed by the
boroughs - TfL merely accept it?

Indeed you are correct.

(And another point for the previous poster to note; as LU was separate
from TfL until this week, the website was also managed separately. So
any flaws with the www.thetube.com website cannot immediately be blamed
on TfL.)

--
Dave

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , John Rowland
writes

For buses they used to have route maps which I found very useful, the
"spider" maps are not very easy to understand.

That's because they have been quickly and cheaply produced. A spider
map can be very clear if it has a lot of manpower put into designing it.

What's wrong with the present set of spider maps?
They serve very well for the purpose I put them to:
determining *which* bus will take me
directly to where I'm going.

I am surprised that anyone thinks that. Just tonight I noticed that the
spider map at Waterloo has Clapham Junction directly "south" of Waterloo,
and I can't imagine anyone looking for it there. Of course you can look up
Clapham Junction in the destination list and it will tell you which bus to
get, thus obviating the need for the map. The one thing for which a map
would be handy would be if you wanted to go some place for which there was
no direct route, and you wanted to work out which route goes near to your
destination, but the maps are too ungeographical to make that easy (or even
possible).

I think spider maps are largely a psychological trick on a dumb public, who
think that "it looks a bit like a tube map so it must be progress". However,
they could work if the manpower was put into making them more geographical,
but then again, why not just have a section of the geographical bus map on
which all routes from here have their roads highlighted and their numbers
ringed? It would not only help you plan changes: it would also let you know
which bus from here to there is likely to be the quickest.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , John Rowland
writes

For buses they used to have route maps which I found very useful, the
"spider" maps are not very easy to understand.

That's because they have been quickly and cheaply produced. A spider
map can be very clear if it has a lot of manpower put into designing
it.

What's wrong with the present set of spider maps?
They serve very well for the purpose I put them to:
determining *which* bus will take me
directly to where I'm going.

I am surprised that anyone thinks that. Just tonight I noticed that the
spider map at Waterloo has Clapham Junction directly "south" of Waterloo,
and I can't imagine anyone looking for it there. Of course you can look up
Clapham Junction in the destination list and it will tell you which bus to
get, thus obviating the need for the map. The one thing for which a map
would be handy would be if you wanted to go some place for which there was
no direct route, and you wanted to work out which route goes near to your
destination, but the maps are too ungeographical to make that easy (or
even
possible).

I think spider maps are largely a psychological trick on a dumb public,
who
think that "it looks a bit like a tube map so it must be progress".
However,
they could work if the manpower was put into making them more
geographical,
but then again, why not just have a section of the geographical bus map on
which all routes from here have their roads highlighted and their numbers
ringed? It would not only help you plan changes: it would also let you
know
which bus from here to there is likely to be the quickest.

The other problem with spider maps is if where you want to get to a certain
place but don't know the area, for instance, I know I need to get to
"Blenkinsop Rd" - on the old type map, I find Blenkinsop Rd, which I see is
the next road along from Harris Avenue a stop served by buses 67a and 89d
that run along Tompkinson Street. I also see that bus 89d serves West
Neasden Underground station, which is on the Coronation Line, the same line
as my home station Turnpike Green. I therefore know from one quick and easy
look-up that to get to my destination I take a train from Turnpike Green to
West Neasden, then a 89d bus to Harris Avenue and complete my journey with a
short walk. On a spider map, Blenkinsop Rd is not metioned at all so I'm
bolloxed from the off.
--
Cheers, Steve.
If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not have
given us the platinum credit card...
Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply.

Steve Dulieu writes
The other problem with spider maps is if where you want to get to a
certain place but don't know the area, for instance, I know I need to
get to "Blenkinsop Rd" - on the old type map, I find Blenkinsop Rd,
which I see is the next road along from Harris Avenue a stop served by
buses 67a and 89d that run along Tompkinson Street. I also see that bus
89d serves West Neasden Underground station, which is on the Coronation
Line, the same line as my home station Turnpike Green. I therefore know
from one quick and easy look-up that to get to my destination I take a
train from Turnpike Green to West Neasden, then a 89d bus to Harris
Avenue and complete my journey with a short walk. On a spider map,
Blenkinsop Rd is not metioned at all so I'm bolloxed from the off.

One could say the same about the tube map. If travelling from Hangar
Lane to Paddington, if you don't know that Lancaster Gate is just around
the corner from Paddington, then you're 'bolloxed from the off'.

I thought the point of the spider maps was they were to be used in
addition to, not instead of the, the geographic maps. Each has their
good and points; the spider maps are very good at letting you quickly
see the places you can travel to directly from that stop - something
that's quite hard to show on a conventional map.

--
Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...

the spider maps are very good at letting you quickly
see the places you can travel to directly from that stop

Are you referring to the diagrams at the top of the timetables at certain
central London bus stops? The "spider maps" show every bus from the
neighbourhood, not from the stop.

Spider maps need to be studied at great length before you can divine
anything from them. The alphabetical list of places beneath them is a much
better source of information, and I think it includes every place named on
the spider map (except minor places which are very near). Since the spider
maps are ungeographical, they tell you nothing about any point which is not
named.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , Steve
Dulieu writes
The other problem with spider maps is if where you want to get to a
certain place but don't know the area, for instance, I know I need to
get to "Blenkinsop Rd" - on the old type map, I find Blenkinsop Rd,
which I see is the next road along from Harris Avenue a stop served by
buses 67a and 89d that run along Tompkinson Street. I also see that bus
89d serves West Neasden Underground station, which is on the Coronation
Line, the same line as my home station Turnpike Green. I therefore know
from one quick and easy look-up that to get to my destination I take a
train from Turnpike Green to West Neasden, then a 89d bus to Harris
Avenue and complete my journey with a short walk. On a spider map,
Blenkinsop Rd is not metioned at all so I'm bolloxed from the off.

So which bit of London exactly do you live in again??

I thought you were lost at Green Park, now I know you have just lost it
:-)
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)