Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article m,
Martin Underwood writes
Ask a resident which county they live in and they'll
say "Berkshire" not "Windsor and Maidenhead" or "Bracknell Forest".
According to Simon Gardner who regularly posts in
uk.local.thames-valley, the strictly correct, hair-splitting answer
to the question would be "I don't" - because Bracknell Forest etc
aren't even counties - they are Unitary Authorities.

I haven't checked the case of Bracknell Forest, but the correct titles
of two other unitary authorities are the County of Peterborough and
the County of Southend-on-Sea.

I don't think that's strictly true. There is a County of Southend-on-Sea
(and also a County of Thurrock), and those areas are no longer part of the
(administrative) county of Essex. But these new counties do not have
councils. The relevant unitary authority for Southend is still
Southend-on-Sea Borough Council. Indeed there is no mention of the "County
of Southend-on-Sea" on www.southend.gov.uk .

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article , Clive D. W. Feather
writes
In article m,
Martin Underwood writes
Ask a resident which county they live in and they'll
say "Berkshire" not "Windsor and Maidenhead" or "Bracknell Forest".
According to Simon Gardner who regularly posts in uk.local.thames-valley,
the strictly correct, hair-splitting answer to the question would be "I
don't" - because Bracknell Forest etc aren't even counties - they are
Unitary Authorities.

I haven't checked the case of Bracknell Forest, but the correct titles of
two other unitary authorities are the County of Peterborough and the
County of Southend-on-Sea.

Didn't know about Southend! It would have been nice if Peterborough
had gone back to the old designation of "The Soke of Peterborough"!

The there's the "City and County of the City of Bristol".......
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Richard J. wrote:
Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article m,
Martin Underwood writes
Ask a resident which county they live in and they'll
say "Berkshire" not "Windsor and Maidenhead" or "Bracknell Forest".
According to Simon Gardner who regularly posts in
uk.local.thames-valley, the strictly correct, hair-splitting answer
to the question would be "I don't" - because Bracknell Forest etc
aren't even counties - they are Unitary Authorities.

I haven't checked the case of Bracknell Forest, but the correct
titles of two other unitary authorities are the County of
Peterborough and
the County of Southend-on-Sea.

I don't think that's strictly true. There is a County of
Southend-on-Sea (and also a County of Thurrock), and those areas are
no longer part of the (administrative) county of Essex. But these
new counties do not have councils. The relevant unitary authority
for Southend is still Southend-on-Sea Borough Council. Indeed there
is no mention of the "County of Southend-on-Sea" on
www.southend.gov.uk .

And the situation is similar for Peterborough. The functions of
Cambridgeshire County Council in respect of Peterborough were transferred to
the *city* council, i.e. the unitary authority.

I don't know why it was necessary to create these new formal counties.
Presumably the original legislation creating the unitary authorities was
botched. Why didn't they just re-create County Boroughs?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

The correct answer to "which county do my parents live in" is "The
County of Southend-on-Sea".

Depending on what you mean by "county".

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

I don't know why it was necessary to create these new formal counties.
Presumably the original legislation creating the unitary authorities was
botched. Why didn't they just re-create County Boroughs?

The 1990s unitaries were made to fit in with post-1972 local government
legislation which didn't include County Boroughs. They are essentially the
same though modern unitaries are not the same as the old County Boroughs
in a number of respects. Peterborough shares a number of services with
Cambridgeshire including the Fire and Rescue service, Police, Waste
Disposal arrangements, structure plan and a Lord Lieutenant.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
The 1990s unitaries were made to fit in with post-1972 local government
legislation which didn't include County Boroughs. They are essentially the
same though modern unitaries are not the same as the old County Boroughs
in a number of respects. Peterborough shares a number of services with
Cambridgeshire including the Fire and Rescue service, Police, Waste
Disposal arrangements, structure plan and a Lord Lieutenant.
The old county borough sometimes shared functions with the counties
around them, too.

Smethwick, a county borough since 1907, shared a police force with
Staffordshire pre 1966. Solihull and Warwickshire shared a children's
home during Solihull's brief period as a County Borough (1966-74) and I
think that Brighton and the two Sussexes shared a common police force,
too (but I might be wrong on that one).

They *all* shared Lords Lieutenant, since that was (and is) an office
pertaining to the geographical (now "ceremonial" county, rather than the
administrative one. Even Birmingham was ultimately under the Lord
Lieutenant of Warwickshire and Manchester under Lancashire, although
they were obviously self governing in all respects.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In article , John Rowland
writes
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes

The 1990s unitaries were made to fit in with post-1972 local
government legislation which didn't include County Boroughs.
They are essentially the same though modern unitaries are
not the same as the old County Boroughs in a number of respects.

Is a modern Unitary Authority the same as an old Soke?
Latterly, I think that the only surviving Soke *was* Peterborough,
although they had been commonplace in mediaeval times. Effectively
County Borough = Unitary Authority + Soke (at least as far as
Peterborough was concerned). As an aside, though, the Soke of
Peterborough was in the geographical (or "Ceremonial" county of
Northamptonshire. I suspect that the present Peterborough Unitary
Authority is in the Geographical (or administrative) County of
Cambridgeshire but I could be wrong. Someone here (Clive?) will know.

I think that Brighton and the two Sussexes shared a common
police force, too (but I might be wrong on that one).

When did East Sussex, West Sussex and Brighton exist as three separate
counties?
At least since 1889, I think, when the pre 1974 system was effectively
set up. Certainly Sussex was divided administratively at that time
(although I don't think along the exact border of the present day split.
Brighton, being a County Borough, was separate from both and could
therefore have had its own Police Authority (in those days called a
"Watch Committee", but didn't.

They *all* shared Lords Lieutenant, since that was (and is)
an office pertaining to the geographical (now "ceremonial"
county, rather than the administrative one.

What does a Lord Lieutenant do, apart from, presumably, wear a hat and cost
us money?
I suspect that they don't cost us that much. They are the Sovereign's
representative within a County.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

I think that Brighton and the two Sussexes shared a common
police force, too (but I might be wrong on that one).

Yes, they do. Council tax bills for Brighton & Hove residents include a
separately itemised amount for funding Sussex Police.

When did East Sussex, West Sussex and Brighton exist as three separate
counties?

Now. East Sussex CC, West Sussex CC, Brighton & Hove UA (AFAIAA East Sussex
CC no longer has *any* administrative powers in Brighton and Hove).

D A Stocks

In article , Ian Jelf
writes
I suspect that the present Peterborough Unitary
Authority is in the Geographical (or administrative) County of
Cambridgeshire but I could be wrong. Someone here (Clive?) will know.

Sorry to follow up my own post but a made a typing error there. That
penultimate sentence should read "I suspect that the present
Peterborough Unitary Authority is in the Geographical (or *ceremonial*)
County of Cambridgeshire but I could be wrong."

Sorry for the confusion.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In article ,
(Ian Jelf) wrote:

Is a modern Unitary Authority the same as an old Soke?
Latterly, I think that the only surviving Soke *was* Peterborough,
although they had been commonplace in mediaeval times. Effectively
County Borough = Unitary Authority + Soke (at least as far as
Peterborough was concerned). As an aside, though, the Soke of
Peterborough was in the geographical (or "Ceremonial" county of
Northamptonshire. I suspect that the present Peterborough Unitary
Authority is in the Geographical (or administrative) County of
Cambridgeshire but I could be wrong. Someone here (Clive?) will know.

The Soke of Peterborough was an administrative county in Northamptonshire
in the same way that the Isle of Ely was an administrative county in
Cambridgeshire.

The Soke had county districts including the City of Peterborough, somewhat
smaller in those days, Barnack Rural District and others IIRC. It didn't
include Thorney Rural District, then in the Isle of Ely but now in
Peterborough which is in the County of Cambridgeshire for a number of
purposes, including the ceremonial.

--
Colin Rosenstiel