On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:57:07 +0100, Colum Mylod
wrote:

On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 03:27:53 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

... so the Wood Lane name is just a blackmail tactic by LU, and will be
changed to White City as soon as the owners of the centre fork out.

Will the SC be called White City though? The marketing types are
probably pouring over this and pondering such names as "retail
solutions London W12"!

I don't know that the shopping centre is named yet (not publicly
anyway). Everything that Westfield and previously Multiplex churn out
just seems to call it "the White City Project". I think you are right
and a funky name will emerge in due course. Don't think it can involve
W12 though as the shopping centre on the South side of Shepherd's Bush
Green is called the W12 Centre isn't it?

The new station could also serve the 5000 or so BBC employees which
considering the car parks' sizes could exceed the numbers going by
tube to the new SC.

Exactly. The station will serve a lot more than just the shopping
centre. If you look at the shopping centre plans on the LBH&F planning
website, whilst the "Wood Lane" station is next to the bigger of the
planned bus stations, it's really at the "back door" of the shopping
centre. The grand front entrance is over the other side where the
Shepherds Bush Central Line station is today (which is scheduled to
get an almost totally new surface building as far as I can tell, just
the escalators being kept), and the National Rail station will soon be
opening. If they were going to petition for a station to be named
after the shopping centre I'm sure it would be the current Shepherd's
Bush Central Line one they'd rename. It's the one that's on the direct
line from Oxford St after all.

I think people are reading far too much into this 2010 map. I don't
think anything new on there like station names can be taken as a
definite. They're just "placeholders" based on information available
today.

Peter Frimberley wrote:
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:57:07 +0100, Colum Mylod
wrote:

On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 03:27:53 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

... so the Wood Lane name is just a blackmail tactic by LU, and will be
changed to White City as soon as the owners of the centre fork out.
Will the SC be called White City though? The marketing types are
probably pouring over this and pondering such names as "retail
solutions London W12"!

I don't know that the shopping centre is named yet (not publicly
anyway). Everything that Westfield and previously Multiplex churn out
just seems to call it "the White City Project". I think you are right
and a funky name will emerge in due course. Don't think it can involve
W12 though as the shopping centre on the South side of Shepherd's Bush
Green is called the W12 Centre isn't it?

Yes. For the new centre, "whitecity" has been around fairly
consistently. Recently, Westfield have taken an interest in branding
their shopping centres, so it may end up being "Westfield whitecity",
but I doubt the White City part will be lost - Brent Cross is still
Brent Cross, after all.

The new station could also serve the 5000 or so BBC employees which
considering the car parks' sizes could exceed the numbers going by
tube to the new SC.

Exactly. The station will serve a lot more than just the shopping
centre. If you look at the shopping centre plans on the LBH&F planning
website, whilst the "Wood Lane" station is next to the bigger of the
planned bus stations, it's really at the "back door" of the shopping
centre. The grand front entrance is over the other side where the
Shepherds Bush Central Line station is today (which is scheduled to
get an almost totally new surface building as far as I can tell, just
the escalators being kept), and the National Rail station will soon be
opening. If they were going to petition for a station to be named
after the shopping centre I'm sure it would be the current Shepherd's
Bush Central Line one they'd rename. It's the one that's on the direct
line from Oxford St after all.

The shopping centre is large enough to make fairly good use of two
transport hubs - it should be quite possible to shop your way from
Shepherd's Bush Central to Wood Lane!

Renaming the current Shepherd's Bush (Central) station would pose a lot
of problems - it's much busier than any of the other stations, has a
clear identity given its location by the heart of Shepherd's Bush at the
green and, depending on the name given, might require a renaming of
White City as well. I really don't see it happening.

I think people are reading far too much into this 2010 map. I don't
think anything new on there like station names can be taken as a
definite. They're just "placeholders" based on information available
today.

Perhaps - but a rename of Shepherd's Bush H&C has been on the cards for
a while because it's a long way from the Central line station. The name
of the new H&C station is also up for grabs; whoever created the map
must have asked someone (or been told) about these stations...

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 00:11:46 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:


Renaming the current Shepherd's Bush (Central) station would pose a lot
of problems - it's much busier than any of the other stations, has a
clear identity given its location by the heart of Shepherd's Bush at the
green and, depending on the name given, might require a renaming of
White City as well. I really don't see it happening.

At least one Central Line station has a line diagram showing the name
as Shepherd's Bush Green...

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 00:11:46 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:


Renaming the current Shepherd's Bush (Central) station would pose a lot
of problems - it's much busier than any of the other stations, has a
clear identity given its location by the heart of Shepherd's Bush at the
green and, depending on the name given, might require a renaming of
White City as well. I really don't see it happening.

At least one Central Line station has a line diagram showing the name
as Shepherd's Bush Green...

Chancery Lane...? (I know that does.)

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Dave Arquati
writes

The shopping centre is large enough to make fairly good use of two
transport hubs - it should be quite possible to shop your way from
Shepherd's Bush Central to Wood Lane!

Renaming the current Shepherd's Bush (Central) station would pose a lot
of problems - it's much busier than any of the other stations, has a
clear identity given its location by the heart of Shepherd's Bush at
the green and, depending on the name given, might require a renaming
of White City as well. I really don't see it happening.

How about Shepherd's Bush Central then?

I'll get me coat!
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Dave Arquati wrote:
Peter Frimberley wrote:

I think people are reading far too much into this 2010 map. I don't
think anything new on there like station names can be taken as a
definite. They're just "placeholders" based on information
available today.

Perhaps - but a rename of Shepherd's Bush H&C has been on the cards
for a while because it's a long way from the Central line station. The
name of the new H&C station is also up for grabs; whoever created
the map must have asked someone (or been told) about these stations...

TfL have issued a press release* today (15 Sep 2006) announcing the
start of construction work on the new H&C station. Although it doesn't
explicitly say that new station will be called White City, it implies
that by saying "the station is being built as part of the new White City
retail and leisure development", and "the construction of world-class
Tube stations at White City for the Hammersmith & City line ...".

The press release mentions White City 10 times but there is no mention
of "Wood Lane".

I'm not sure what will be "world-class" about the H&C station, but that
must surely imply escalators and lifts to platform level and a decent
covered interchange to White City Central Line.

*
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=896

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:50:44 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

I'm not sure what will be "world-class" about the H&C station, but that
must surely imply escalators and lifts to platform level and a decent
covered interchange to White City Central Line.

Well a whole raft of plans have been on LB H&F's Planning website for
a year or so (http://tinyurl.com/jsl8r). They only show stairs and two
lifts to each platform, and it's a standalone structure, i.e. no links
covered or other to the Central Line station or the adjoining new bus
station, besides the pavement along the existing street. So I don't
think their idea of "World Class" aligns with yours.

Possible that the plans have changed but that ought to have prompted
them to appear on the LB H&F website.

The plans do show "public conveniences" under the tracks though. How
long they will be open to the public remains to be seen!

Peter Frimberley wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:50:44 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

I'm not sure what will be "world-class" about the H&C station, but that
must surely imply escalators and lifts to platform level and a decent
covered interchange to White City Central Line.

Well a whole raft of plans have been on LB H&F's Planning website for
a year or so (http://tinyurl.com/jsl8r). They only show stairs and two
lifts to each platform, and it's a standalone structure, i.e. no links
covered or other to the Central Line station or the adjoining new bus
station, besides the pavement along the existing street. So I don't
think their idea of "World Class" aligns with yours.

Possible that the plans have changed but that ought to have prompted
them to appear on the LB H&F website.

The plans do show "public conveniences" under the tracks though. How
long they will be open to the public remains to be seen!

AIUI there is no plan for a dedicated link to the Central line station
as part of the current project. I assume that provision will be made at
each station's barriers to allow on-street interchange between the two.

However, the next stage of development in the area - the area north of
the H&C up to the Westway - is likely to create enough demand at the
White City stations for a new interchange ticket hall at the southern
end of the Central line platforms (and hence right next to the H&C station).

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:24:55 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

Peter Frimberley wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:50:44 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

I'm not sure what will be "world-class" about the H&C station, but that
must surely imply escalators and lifts to platform level and a decent
covered interchange to White City Central Line.

Well a whole raft of plans have been on LB H&F's Planning website for
a year or so (http://tinyurl.com/jsl8r). They only show stairs and two
lifts to each platform, and it's a standalone structure, i.e. no links
covered or other to the Central Line station or the adjoining new bus
station, besides the pavement along the existing street. So I don't
think their idea of "World Class" aligns with yours.

Possible that the plans have changed but that ought to have prompted
them to appear on the LB H&F website.

The plans do show "public conveniences" under the tracks though. How
long they will be open to the public remains to be seen!

AIUI there is no plan for a dedicated link to the Central line station
as part of the current project. I assume that provision will be made at
each station's barriers to allow on-street interchange between the two.

However, the next stage of development in the area - the area north of
the H&C up to the Westway - is likely to create enough demand at the
White City stations for a new interchange ticket hall at the southern
end of the Central line platforms (and hence right next to the H&C station).

I was lucky enough to have a brief look round some of the Westfield
White City site as part of the London Open House weekend.

They said that the northern part of the development that you mention
is years if not decades away, but yes it's on the drawing board.

They also said there was no final name known yet for the shopping
centre but they were expecting it to substantially "White City", since
that's how everyone has referred to the area for the last 100 years or
something, no amount of marketing is likely to change that; whereas
Bluewater could be called more or less what they liked since there was
nothing of significance there before.

A project manager gentleman said the transport facilities including
the main line station, despite it being well advanced in construction,
are not scheduled to be completed until shortly before the shopping
centre opens, now planned for 3rd quarter 2008. Multiplex/Westfield
subcontracted all of the transport works out to specialists used to
working with the relevant transport companies, and the one doing the
main line station just happens to have spare capacity at the moment so
they are able to get on with it now, but they don't actually "need" to
to meet their schedule.

What surprised me standing in the middle of the site (as opposed to
regularly driving past either end of it) was the sheer scale of it.
And they haven't even started the central section at all yet, because
the Central Line sidings are still in the way (and very sorry they
looked too). They did have some photos of the near-completed
replacement underground sidings that looked very nice. The steelwork
currently visible above ground is just the two extreme ends of the
development, the bulk of it will start going up once the Central Line
switches to the new depot.

Peter Frimberley wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:24:55 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

Peter Frimberley wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:50:44 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

I'm not sure what will be "world-class" about the H&C station, but that
must surely imply escalators and lifts to platform level and a decent
covered interchange to White City Central Line.
Well a whole raft of plans have been on LB H&F's Planning website for
a year or so (http://tinyurl.com/jsl8r). They only show stairs and two
lifts to each platform, and it's a standalone structure, i.e. no links
covered or other to the Central Line station or the adjoining new bus
station, besides the pavement along the existing street. So I don't
think their idea of "World Class" aligns with yours.

Possible that the plans have changed but that ought to have prompted
them to appear on the LB H&F website.

The plans do show "public conveniences" under the tracks though. How
long they will be open to the public remains to be seen!
AIUI there is no plan for a dedicated link to the Central line station
as part of the current project. I assume that provision will be made at
each station's barriers to allow on-street interchange between the two.

However, the next stage of development in the area - the area north of
the H&C up to the Westway - is likely to create enough demand at the
White City stations for a new interchange ticket hall at the southern
end of the Central line platforms (and hence right next to the H&C station).

I was lucky enough to have a brief look round some of the Westfield
White City site as part of the London Open House weekend.

They said that the northern part of the development that you mention
is years if not decades away, but yes it's on the drawing board.

They also said there was no final name known yet for the shopping
centre but they were expecting it to substantially "White City", since
that's how everyone has referred to the area for the last 100 years or
something, no amount of marketing is likely to change that; whereas
Bluewater could be called more or less what they liked since there was
nothing of significance there before.

A project manager gentleman said the transport facilities including
the main line station, despite it being well advanced in construction,
are not scheduled to be completed until shortly before the shopping
centre opens, now planned for 3rd quarter 2008. Multiplex/Westfield
subcontracted all of the transport works out to specialists used to
working with the relevant transport companies, and the one doing the
main line station just happens to have spare capacity at the moment so
they are able to get on with it now, but they don't actually "need" to
to meet their schedule.

What surprised me standing in the middle of the site (as opposed to
regularly driving past either end of it) was the sheer scale of it.
And they haven't even started the central section at all yet, because
the Central Line sidings are still in the way (and very sorry they
looked too). They did have some photos of the near-completed
replacement underground sidings that looked very nice. The steelwork
currently visible above ground is just the two extreme ends of the
development, the bulk of it will start going up once the Central Line
switches to the new depot.

I went to that too! I was also surprised by the scale of the site - I
can now understand why they mentioned holding live events like concerts
in the winter garden area in the centre of the complex.

The scale of the site also shows why two bus stations and two Tube
stations are needed!

The fact that it has almost as many shops as Oxford Street (265 versus
about 300) is overwhelming. The footfall on Oxford Street is immense,
and it is served by four Tube stations, five Tube lines and dozens of
bus routes. White City will also have four-ish stations, but will be
served by three lines (and the West London Line is nor will be as
frequent as the others) and about 13 bus routes.

Although the public transport improvements are very welcome, I couldn't
help but be rather disappointed by the modal split prediction - 60% by
PT, and large part of the remainder by car (since the complex will have
4000 car parking spaces and direct access to the A40). Local residents
(including myself) are rather concerned about the impact it will have on
the Holland Park Roundabout, which already struggles to function in the
evenings. All we can hope is that the parking charges are sufficient to
encourage the use of public transport whereever possible - but I'm not
convinced that they will.

I also noticed that Westfield appear to be contributing to a (needed)
overhaul of Shepherd's Bush Green. Unfortunately, the Green gets
strangled by traffic, and any visual and environmental improvements will
be somewhat deadened by queues of cars.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London