"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message .com,
TheOneKEA writes

Is this platform planned to be brought into use by TfL as part of any
new Overground services to Clapham Junction?

I think it will when the East London Line Extension reaches Clapham
Junction. The likely scenario seems to be that London Overground services
running anticlockwise (i.e. on the ELLE) will use platform 2, while those
running clockwise (i.e. on the West London Line) will move across to
platform 1, thus offering cross-platform interchange.

That fits in with everything I've read. Its considered impossible to run a
reliable orbital service due to pathing and signalling constraints - a bit
like the circle line really...

Its interesting that the various proposals suggest that the trains running
on the existing West London Line will be considered part of the North London
Line, and those on the existing South London Line part of the East London
Line; I wondered at first if the TfL planners were a bit geographically
challenged, but it works if you consider getting on at CJ, platform 1 for
trains round to North London, and platform 2 for trains round to the East.

I think one issue if they manage to beef up the frequencies will be the fact
that other WLL services will still be using platforms 16 and 17, its a pity
all the services can't go from one part of the station, or can they?

Paul

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:25:59 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message .com,
TheOneKEA writes

Is this platform planned to be brought into use by TfL as part of any
new Overground services to Clapham Junction?

I think it will when the East London Line Extension reaches Clapham
Junction. The likely scenario seems to be that London Overground services
running anticlockwise (i.e. on the ELLE) will use platform 2, while those
running clockwise (i.e. on the West London Line) will move across to
platform 1, thus offering cross-platform interchange.

Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would
effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be
forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey?

That fits in with everything I've read. Its considered impossible to run a
reliable orbital service due to pathing and signalling constraints - a bit
like the circle line really...

I think the S Bahn operators in Berlin might disagree with you. They
seem to run a circular Ring Bahn perfectly well and also schedule
overlap services over parts of the entire circuit to bolster frequencies
and provide links onto radial S Bahn lines. I've used it and it seems
pretty reliable to me and also well patronised.

Circular services are only a problem when you try to run them with
inadequate infrastructure or schedules that are too tight - are that
would be why can't run them in this country then!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:25:59 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would
effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be
forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey?

That fits in with everything I've read. Its considered impossible to run a
reliable orbital service due to pathing and signalling constraints - a bit
like the circle line really...

I think the S Bahn operators in Berlin might disagree with you. They
seem to run a circular Ring Bahn perfectly well and also schedule
overlap services over parts of the entire circuit to bolster frequencies
and provide links onto radial S Bahn lines. I've used it and it seems
pretty reliable to me and also well patronised.

Circular services are only a problem when you try to run them with
inadequate infrastructure or schedules that are too tight - are that
would be why can't run them in this country then!

I believe thats the background to the T-cup proposals for the circle line
and H&C isn't it?

Paul S

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:24:18 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .

Circular services are only a problem when you try to run them with
inadequate infrastructure or schedules that are too tight - are that
would be why can't run them in this country then!

I believe thats the background to the T-cup proposals for the circle line
and H&C isn't it?

It may be but my point is that circular services can run properly if you
get non conflicting junctions and adequate signalling capacity. This is
what Berlin has got on its S Bahn and the service runs fine. The LU
proposals are an attempt to create reliability without the huge
construction costs of removing conflicting junctions of which there are
many on the Circle / District line.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Jul 1, 3:08 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
It may be but my point is that circular services can run properly if you
get non conflicting junctions and adequate signalling capacity. This is
what Berlin has got on its S Bahn and the service runs fine. The LU
proposals are an attempt to create reliability without the huge
construction costs of removing conflicting junctions of which there are
many on the Circle / District line.

There are six that affect the Circle directly - Praed Street, Baker
Street, Aldgate, Minories, Gloucester Road and HSK. Aldgate East also
affects the Circle, but not as directly.

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would
effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be
forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey?

Yes, that's my understanding. On the map accessible from ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/..._feature.shtml

Clapham Junction is shown as an interchange between the clockwise and
anticlockwise routes, rather than as a through station.

I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction
and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all
sorts of operating problems.
--
Paul Terry

On Jun 30, 5:54 pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would
effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be
forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey?

Yes, that's my understanding. On the map accessible from ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/.../overground_tr...

Clapham Junction is shown as an interchange between the clockwise and
anticlockwise routes, rather than as a through station.

I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction
and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all
sorts of operating problems.
--
Paul Terry


It would mean that trains arriving and departing would sometimes have
to cross, but that happens at many two-platform termini with genuine
metro frequencies (eg Elephant and Castle, Brixton). A dedicated
platform for each direction would be a nice luxury, but would it be
necessary with the frequencies planned?

On Jun 30, 6:21?pm, MIG wrote:
On Jun 30, 5:54 pm, Paul Terry wrote:





In message , Paul Corfield
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but would
effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers would be
forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham Junction journey?

Yes, that's my understanding. On the map accessible from ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/.../overground_tr...

Clapham Junction is shown as an interchange between the clockwise and
anticlockwise routes, rather than as a through station.

I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction
and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all
sorts of operating problems.
--
Paul Terry

It would mean that trains arriving and departing would sometimes have
to cross, but that happens at many two-platform termini with genuine
metro frequencies (eg Elephant and Castle, Brixton). A dedicated
platform for each direction would be a nice luxury, but would it be
necessary with the frequencies planned?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Follow this link for a pictue of Platform 1 in use in 1971:-

http://johnlawontherails.fotopic.net/p37188651.html

Marc.

wrote:


Follow this link for a pictue of Platform 1 in use in 1971:-

http://johnlawontherails.fotopic.net/p37188651.html

Marc.


Thats splendid thanks very much.

mf

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that trains will not actually run in a circle but
would effectively reverse in the appropriate platform? Passengers
would be forced to change in order to complete a cross Clapham
Junction journey?

Yes, that's my understanding. On the map accessible from ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/..._feature.shtml

Clapham Junction is shown as an interchange between the clockwise and
anticlockwise routes, rather than as a through station.

I guess it would be possible for trains to reverse at Clapham Junction
and continue round the circle, but I imagine that it could produce all
sorts of operating problems.

I can't think of any, unless you mean "reverse *promptly* at Clapham
Junction and continue round the circle". It should produce a more robust
service if the trains *do* continue around the circle, after a suitable
wait... that way problems which affect the clockwise can't affect the anti
and vice versa.