On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:21:52 GMT Neil Williams
said...

Flat fare of a quid for bus journeys everywhere isn't *too* bad -
it'll allow all buses to go to off-bus ticketing sooner, though it'll
not give much scope for further increases without involving loose
change.

I think the idea is to educate the occasional bus user to use the Saver 6
or Oyster Smartcard. Interesting as hundreds of bus stops in Central
London have had the new self service ticket machines installed in recent
weeks, it looks like the whole system will be cash free by 2005/6. That's
assuming TfL plan to put machines at each & every stop for those who
still want to pay cash.

I *do* disagree with the free travel for children idea,
though - I can see it leading to troublemakers *legitimately* riding
around on buses for free all day harassing the passengers. 40p is not
an unreasonable child fare, IMO.

Perhaps a better idea ought to be kids travelling with an adult travel go
free, unaccompanied pay. Presumably there will still be the no child
fares on Night Buses restriction as at present.

I'm not sure if TfL have thought this one out properly and how they go
about enforcing which kid is 11 or under.

As for gbp2 single on the Tube zone 1, it's a complete rip-off,
blatently targeted at visitors and tourists.

I wouldn't say the increase targeted at visitors & tourists as many would
tend to opt for Travelcards, the ODTC for Zones 1 & 2 for example is
going up only by 10p for example.

The biggest hike has got to be for those that regularly Travel in Z1 only
especially the Weekly Travelcard & Carnets. I think the biggest outcry
will come from those that live & work or whatever in Z1.

inter-available with buses to encourage the two to be used as a system
rather than two distinct means of transport.

I think it's safe to say single tickets involving bus to bus or tube to
bus (or v.v.) transfers are out of the question in London. A pity as so
many other cities in Europe manage this perfectly well.

It's odd, as someone originating from the North West who now lives in
Milton Keynes and visits London a lot (normally with a Travelcard), to
see that bus and Tube/rail fares in the London area are opposite to
those in the Northern PTEs - there, bus fares are set at commercial
rates and so are high, while rail fares are heavily-subsidised and
rather cheap in comparison, while in London the opposite is the
case...

For the last few years Ken has tried to get more passengers on the buses
and to give the man credit he has done a good job there. The last few
fare changes have seen prices dropped, Night bus fares levelled with day
time ones etc. etc. And consequently he has got more buses out on the
roads too which is quite the opposite to the tube as capacity can't be
really increased any more than it is at present.

What I would like to see as the next step in London's fares is for the
TOCs pricing structure to fall fully in line with the Travelcard zonal
system. Effectively one fare, one ticket say from any station in Zone 1
to say any station Zone 6 be it Tube or National Rail.

--
Phil Richards
London, N4

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:48:55 +0100 Robert Woolley
said...

Funny. Its only 65p with a Saver....

70p from 4 January 2004, presumably the pack of 6 will rise to £4.20 from
£3.90. So my question is as the present Saver 6s don't have a "use by"
date, you could theoretically buy loads at the old rate and still use
them after the bus fares go up....

--
Phil Richards
London, N4

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:26:59 +0100 Robin Mayes
said...

I'm intrigued why Z1 only prices have shot up the way they have done.

Because the system within Zone 1 is creaking at the seams?

Exactly, but as I pointed out in another message it's those that begin &
finish their journey in Z1 that are getting hit the hardest. Those that
commute in from the rest of London are faced with much smaller percentage
increases so it doesn't really make sense.

Perhaps the idea is to encourage those travelling within Z1 to use the
buses and keep more space the tube for those coming in from further out.

--
Phil Richards
London, N4

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:49:25 +0100, Phil Richards
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:48:55 +0100 Robert Woolley
said...

Funny. Its only 65p with a Saver....

70p from 4 January 2004, presumably the pack of 6 will rise to £4.20 from
£3.90. So my question is as the present Saver 6s don't have a "use by"
date, you could theoretically buy loads at the old rate and still use
them after the bus fares go up....

Looks like it. Same principle as books of stamps with 1st and 2nd on
them....

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:21:52 GMT Neil Williams wrote:
}
} As for gbp2 single on the Tube zone 1, it's a complete rip-off,
} blatently targeted at visitors and tourists. The fare should be
} *reduced* to a quid, and made inter-available with buses to encourage
} the two to be used as a system rather than two distinct means of
} transport.

Ken said he would if he could but he can't so he won't.

At least unless the government par for it.

Not trying to pressure the treasury, no.

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

In message , Phil Richards
writes
In that case why not pop in to your local friendly pass agent to buy
your Travelcard before making your initial bus journey?

This is a good point. My office is on an estate far away from a town or
newsagents. So if I want to go out in the evening. I have to pay 70p to
get the bus to the nearest tube station. And then buy an all zone travel
card.
Is it possible to buy off-peak day travel cards before 9am that you can
only use after 9am? I bet not.
If I was to present my newly machine brought unused all zone day travel
card and my recently used bus ticket would I get my 70p back? I bet not.
And how is Oyster going to help? Im still going to lose 70p credit when
I use the bus and then £5.10 when I buy my travel card 30mins later. So
Im not better off.
--
CJG

In article ,
CJG wrote:
Is it possible to buy off-peak day travel cards before 9am that you can
only use after 9am? I bet not.

I think so, from pass agents & ticket offices at least.

In message , CJG
writes

Is it possible to buy off-peak day travel cards before 9am that you can
only use after 9am? I bet not.

Of course you can - you can even buy them the day before if you want,
which is what I usually do. But they are valid from 9:30, not 9:00.

--
Paul Terry

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:04:50 +0100 CJG
said...

And how is Oyster going to help? Im still going to lose 70p credit when
I use the bus and then £5.10 when I buy my travel card 30mins later. So
Im not better off.

In this case as I understand it Oystercard won't help. You'll be able to
load it with credit for single bus/tube journeys or weekly & longer
Travelcards. However the facility to pre-purchase a One Day Travel Card
(Peak or Off Peak) or One Day Bus Pass won't be available.

--
Phil Richards
London, N4

"CJG" wrote in message
...
In message , Phil Richards
writes
In that case why not pop in to your local friendly pass agent to buy
your Travelcard before making your initial bus journey?

This is a good point. My office is on an estate far away from a town or
newsagents.

Blimey! You need to get a better job, mate!
Alan