On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:55:16 +0100, wrote:

If the notes are from Scotland and bear the word sterling then they are
legal tender and I believe that retailers have to accept them.

They aren't, though for the purposes of retail it's irrelevant whether
they are or not, as the concept of legal tender refers only to payment
of a debt.

A retailer may choose to accept or not accept any method of payment
for any reason[1] he or she chooses, as no debt exists because the
goods aren't yours until paid for.

[1] Other than racism, sexism etc.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In uk.transport.london message ,
Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:13:03, Peter Campbell Smith posted:

To get slightly back to topic, I don't remember any train fares costing odd
halfpennies (my monthly child season was 4s 11d which was 1/3 of the adult
rate),

When I was younger, I (and others) purchased a Third Class Cheap Day
Return to travel from Mottisfont to Romsey and back. at a cost of 5½d -
tuppence three-farthings each way, it would have been. But BR did not
say that, although an outbound train was conveniently imminent, there
was no return service at any reasonable hour. I still have the return
half, unused.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Proper = 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with "" or " " (SonOfRFC1036)

Roland Perry wrote in
:

In message , at 23:43:47 on Thu,
19 Jun 2008, remarked:
So it seems the Dutch have not abolished the 2c after all.

Can they actually abolish it in their country, however?

I don't know. I was simply reporting that it was, in fact, still in
circulation, despite reports to the contrary.

It's one monetary system, which is used by 15 states.

I'm going to France soon and I'll see what the situation is there.

I was in St Omer (northern France) last Saturday, and when buying in the
market, they (consistently) priced with a resolution of 1c and totalled
the bill precisely, but then only charged me the price rounded down to a
5c multiple. So for example, item A was weighed and labelled as 1.28
euro, item B was labelled at 1.59 euro, the total was 2.87 euro and they
gave 15c change from 3 euro.

A lot of "Mom and Pop" small food stores in Metro Vancouver have
adopted that method as an unofficial way to avoid Canadian pennies.

I imagine they would accept 1c and 2c coins, but I didn't try.

Peter

wrote:
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:42:31 +0100, wrote:

"Hugh Brodie" wrote in message
...
Speaking of hyper-inflation, it's fun looking at the website of the
Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe http://www.rbz.co.zw to see the daily exchange
rate of the $Z vs the $US. Yesterday, it was 5,817,000,000; today it's
6,718,000,000. They have just issued $Z 50,000,000,000 notes ("bearer
cheques"). And it will cost you $Z 1,800,000,000 to mail a postcard to
the
US. http://www.zimpost.co.zw/postalrates.html

It's a shame that there are no images of currently circulating Zimbabwean
notes or coins.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4266.html
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/04/...urrencies.html
http://www.neatorama.com/category/money-finance/page/2/
The latter also has a 100,000 USD note.
http://stores.ebay.com.sg/Roberts-Wo...QQftidZ2QQtZkm

Many thanks for that.

Wouldn't it be illegal to sell a 100,000-dollar note, however? They are not
intended for general circulation and I wonder if the relevant US authorities
would have something to say about that.

For starters, the US authorities have something to say about any cash
transaction larger than USD5,000, due to money laundering (and now
"terrorism") laws regardless of the size of the individual bills.

USD10,000 and 100,000 bills were only issued to the Federal Reserve
Banks as a way to transfer money between themselves (much easier than
shipping gold) and were not circulated _at all_. According to the
authorities, all were accounted for and all were destroyed except a few
that were lent (not given or sold) to museums. It is supposedly
impossible for a person to acquire a legitimate one legally, so if such
a bill were presented to a bank, the person would be arrested for either
counterfeiting or theft.

Now, if it turns out that any of those bills _did_ get into circulation
and had been hoarded for eight-plus decades without detection, a bank
would be required to accept it for deposit (the US never demonetizes old
currency or coins), but they could not give it out to another customer
for a withdrawal. They would send the bill to their Federal Reserve
Bank, which would undoubtedly destroy it immediately. That is exactly
what would happen to the remaining USD1000 bills that are out there, but
nobody sane would ever present them to a bank because they're worth more
as collectibles than as money, just like old silver and gold coins that
are now worth many times their face value.

This is decidedly different than what happens to (relatively rare) USD2
bills, which banks accept without comment but only give out to customers
upon specific request. Banks also hoard USD50 and USD100 bills, but
they'll ask if you want them if your withdrawal is large ("Do you want
that in hundreds or twenties?").

S

Hoard $50's?

Hmmm, Canadian bank machines routinely dish out our $50's, though the
machines are usually identified and at locations where "regular" $20
dispensers are also available.

--
Mike D

Neil Williams wrote
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:55:16 +0100, wrote:

If the notes are from Scotland and bear the word sterling then they
are
legal tender and I believe that retailers have to accept them.

They aren't, though for the purposes of retail it's irrelevant
whether
they are or not, as the concept of legal tender refers only to
payment
of a debt.

A retailer may choose to accept or not accept any method of payment
for any reason[1] he or she chooses, as no debt exists because the
goods aren't yours until paid for.

[1] Other than racism, sexism etc.

For an "ordinary" retail transaction, yes.

But if you are paying your monthly newspaper bill or the bill in an
ordinary restaurant or you are (thinks) at the drycleaners then there
is a debt so the legal tender rules apply.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/bankn...egaltender.htm

and indeed for the US
http://www.treasury.gov/education/fa...l-tender.shtml

The US, unlike the UK, apparently doesn't have a law preventing you
legally paying a debt in 1 cent or other tiny coins.

--
Mike D

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:14:15 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to pay with a credit card, or even a
cheque?

This is often a difference between the UK and mainland Europe where
credit cards are used a lot less.

Perhaps, although I'd definitely exclude France from your "mainland
Europe" definition, as Visa cards and cheques are very widely used
there. Germany certainly dragged behind for a very long time, though.

I can't even imagine a situation,
other than perhaps buying a car privately[1], where I might consider
dealing with that amount of cash.

Neither can I - just the idea of it makes me feel uneasy.

Andrew Price wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:14:15 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to pay with a credit card, or even a
cheque?

This is often a difference between the UK and mainland Europe where
credit cards are used a lot less.

Perhaps, although I'd definitely exclude France from your "mainland
Europe" definition, as Visa cards and cheques are very widely used
there.

In France, most cards are debit cards, and it's true that credit cards are
used less than in the UK. The question to Rian (who anyway is in Belgium)
should be "Wouldn't it have been easier to pay with a debit card?" (rather
than withdrawing unusual amounts of cash from his bank).
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:36:27 +0100, wrote:

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:46:33 +0100, wrote:

ITYF the USD is a universal black-market currency in countries where
the economy has gone tits-up, possibly accompanied to a lesser degree
by Sterling and Euros or any more local "trusted" foreign currency.

Euros yes, but I do not think that sterling would be a universal
black-market currency.

I did say "lesser degree". My late mother worked for a subsidiary of
censored in the 1960s/1970s and was aware of dodgy goings-on in the
Middle East where the "agency fee" for some government officials and
company agents took the form of payment in IIRC "gold pounds" which
was presumably a reference to payment in sovereigns. I would not be
surprised if there had been a double fiddle of the coins being
accounted for at face value to diminish the apparent size of the
alleged "fees".

I would also expect that rands would be the hard currency of choice in
southern Africa, as a substantial part of the Zimbabwean population is in
South Africa.

Nobody wrote:
This is decidedly different than what happens to (relatively rare) USD2
bills, which banks accept without comment but only give out to customers
upon specific request. Banks also hoard USD50 and USD100 bills, but
they'll ask if you want them if your withdrawal is large ("Do you want
that in hundreds or twenties?").

Hoard $50's?

Yes, same reason as $100 bills: retailers won't take them, so most
customers don't want them. It makes little sense since the same
retailers will happily take a thick stack of $20s, which can be just as
easily counterfeited, but that's how it is.

Another knock against the $50 bill is people don't see them often, since
they're relatively useless (people either have $100s or $20s), so
they're not comfortable with them. If people can't figure out if a
somewhat more common $100 bill is fake, they'll never be able to figure
it out for a less common $50 bill...

$2 bills have a worse problem, incidentally. Many people have never
seen one in their entire lives -- or even know they exist -- and they
look different than all the other bills. Many clerks won't take them
without checking with a manager; if the manager hasn't seen one before
(which is fairly rare -- they _are_ still in circulation), they may
refuse to accept it even though the potential loss from a counterfeit is
negligible.

Hmmm, Canadian bank machines routinely dish out our $50's, though the
machines are usually identified and at locations where "regular" $20
dispensers are also available.

US ATMs generally only dispense $20 bills; it makes them simpler and
requires less refilling if there's only one bill type. There are still
a few that give out $5 and $10 bills as well, though they're rare. Ones
in casinos will give you $100 bills, since they accept them at the
tables and that's where they want you spending your money. I've never
seen a US ATM dispense $50 bills.

S

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:11:30 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote:

Nobody wrote:
This is decidedly different than what happens to (relatively rare) USD2
bills, which banks accept without comment but only give out to customers
upon specific request. Banks also hoard USD50 and USD100 bills, but
they'll ask if you want them if your withdrawal is large ("Do you want
that in hundreds or twenties?").

Hoard $50's?

Yes, same reason as $100 bills: retailers won't take them, so most
customers don't want them. It makes little sense since the same
retailers will happily take a thick stack of $20s, which can be just as
easily counterfeited, but that's how it is.

Another knock against the $50 bill is people don't see them often, since
they're relatively useless (people either have $100s or $20s), so
they're not comfortable with them. If people can't figure out if a
somewhat more common $100 bill is fake, they'll never be able to figure
it out for a less common $50 bill...

$2 bills have a worse problem, incidentally. Many people have never
seen one in their entire lives -- or even know they exist -- and they
look different than all the other bills. Many clerks won't take them
without checking with a manager; if the manager hasn't seen one before
(which is fairly rare -- they _are_ still in circulation), they may
refuse to accept it even though the potential loss from a counterfeit is
negligible.

Hmmm, Canadian bank machines routinely dish out our $50's, though the
machines are usually identified and at locations where "regular" $20
dispensers are also available.

US ATMs generally only dispense $20 bills; it makes them simpler and
requires less refilling if there's only one bill type. There are still
a few that give out $5 and $10 bills as well, though they're rare. Ones
in casinos will give you $100 bills, since they accept them at the
tables and that's where they want you spending your money. I've never
seen a US ATM dispense $50 bills.

Aren't US banknotes also all the same size thus making it easier to
accidentally sandwich a high value note in amongst low value notes ?