"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...

Replacing the fourth rail isn't going to be cheap. You also have stuff
like installing one-person-operation equipment (Bakerloo trains have
lost their guards since the line closed. London Overground hasn't) and
communication systems and so on.

As for
extra stock - where did it all go when the line was cut back to
wealdstone?

It still had 1959 and 1938 stock back then, so the answer is either
for scrap or the Isle of Wight.

Is a fourth rail really necessary out that way, however? I always understood
that they were really needed only for the tub sections of the tube, to help
power flow into the motors. I heard this on the Island Line, where 38 stock
operates only with a 3rd rail.

Also, what sort of equipment would you need to ensure safe one-man
operation? Are the stop arms still working?

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:20:47 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:

On 24 Nov, 09:37, Boltar wrote:
I don't see why it should cost much at all. The line is in constant
use already - its not as if its been mothballed so the signalling
should all be working fine. All they'll need to do is replace the 4th
rail and put a few LU stickers on the walls of the stations.

Replacing the fourth rail isn't going to be cheap. You also have stuff
like installing one-person-operation equipment (Bakerloo trains have
lost their guards since the line closed. London Overground hasn't) and
communication systems and so on.

The DC line has been OPO since not long after 313s were introduced.

As for
extra stock - where did it all go when the line was cut back to
wealdstone?

It still had 1959 and 1938 stock back then, so the answer is either
for scrap or the Isle of Wight.

Sounds more like a case of they can't be arsed.

"Too expensive" and "poor cost/benefit ratio" and "can't be arsed" are
pretty much the same thing.

U

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:30:14 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

FWIW in the past I had an open mind on the issue but I think I've now
shifted over to being of the opinion that withdrawing local trains to
and from Euston on a permanent basis ain't really on - the notion that
one simply couldn't catch a local train service from Euston just seems
rather absurd (esp having actually experienced it!). The Bakerloo line
into central London isn't really close enough to being a similar route
to act as a replacement for the DC lines service.

I guess not, as LO is proving as popular as ever. Its absence has not
prevented it drawing the crowds back - even if they've only migrated
from as far as platform 8.

It's a good job it's back, as due to the effective cancellation[1] of
the 1804 slow this evening, the 1824 was full and standing. With the
LO local passengers, people (possibly long-distance travellers) would
have been left behind.

From 12 Dec (ish), the problem would be accentuated further, as the
1824 will be a through service to Crewe, and the last train serving
Atherstone, and the last LM one (with the ridiculously cheap[2] fares)
serving Nuneaton etc.

[1] Run fast to MKC only due to a delay, presumably so it got a free
run on the slows in front of the 1824 without delaying it. It would,
IMO, have made sense to stop it at Cheddington (if anyone wanted it)
and Bletchley, though, as it'd have seriously reduced the load on the
1824. Or to have attached 4 of its 8 cars onto the 1824 and removed
them at Bletchley.

[2] It is now cheaper to buy a super off-peak return from MKC to
Stafford (a stupidly cheap 11 quid) than a CDR to Brum (14 ish).
Useful to know, especially on a weekend when both are valid all day.
I suspect these are introductory fares, but they are *bloody* cheap
while they last. Over 10 years ago Liverpool-London return booked in
advance was 19 quid. Now you can have a LM walk-up return for a
paltry 16!

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:20:47 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:

London Overground hasn't

Does the Euston-Watford service have guards? I was almost certain it
was DOO.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Nov 24, 10:39 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

London Overground hasn't

Does the Euston-Watford service have guards? I was almost certain it
was DOO.

Off the top of my head I thought all Silverlink 313s were crew
operated so assume LO inherited this. I might be wrong.

--
Nick

As for
extra stock - where did it all go when the line was cut back to
wealdstone?

It still had 1959 and 1938 stock back then, so the answer is either
for scrap or the Isle of Wight.


IIRC there were only 4 more units involved when services ran to
Watford if you simply took the contemporary services beforer and after
when Watford was axed.

--
Nick

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:42:20 -0800 (PST), D7666
wrote:

Off the top of my head I thought all Silverlink 313s were crew
operated so assume LO inherited this. I might be wrong.

I was pretty sure the Euston-Watford was an exception to this. I've
never seen a guard on one - but I'll look tomorrow if I think on.

DOO mirrors are certainly fitted at all the stations on that route.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Nov 24, 10:50 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote


DOO mirrors are certainly fitted at all the stations on that route.


Watford / Snorbens has got mirrors but the 321 is crewed.

I'm probably wrong but I thought mirrors are an aid to driver to see
guard but DOO needs CCTV ?

I'm now trying to think where I have been DOO where there are no
cameras.

--
Nick

On Nov 24, 11:11*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 24, 10:50 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote

DOO mirrors are certainly fitted at all the stations on that route.

Watford / Snorbens has got mirrors but the 321 is crewed.

I'm probably wrong but I thought mirrors are an aid to driver to see
guard but DOO needs CCTV ?

I'm now trying to think where I have been DOO where there are no
cameras.


I seem to recall that the former Silverlink AC routes (i.e. Euston -
Northampton and Watford - St. Albans) are driver / guard operated as
the DOO mirror positions were surveyed for class 317s and needed to be
repositioned / resurveyed for use by 321s. I think that this was due
to the 317s having a side cab window, which the 321s lack (the door
window being further back than the 317 cab window). This work was
never done and so 321s remain crew operated. Several platforms have
lost their mirrors during the WCML rebuilding / platform lengthening.

CCTV is not necessary, as the 313s on the Watford - Euston line don't
use it at all stations. For example, see this picture at Kenton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:K...northbound.JPG

where you can see the Southbound DOO mirror (at the 3 car stop), but
no CCTV monitor. I think that CCTV is only required where the platform
is curved (or maybe on the 'wrong' side of the train). Kenton does
have CCTV at the platform ends, for use by the Bakerloo trains.

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:47:34 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

On Nov 24, 11:11*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 24, 10:50 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote

DOO mirrors are certainly fitted at all the stations on that route.

Watford / Snorbens has got mirrors but the 321 is crewed.

I'm probably wrong but I thought mirrors are an aid to driver to see
guard but DOO needs CCTV ?

I'm now trying to think where I have been DOO where there are no
cameras.


I seem to recall that the former Silverlink AC routes (i.e. Euston -
Northampton and Watford - St. Albans) are driver / guard operated as
the DOO mirror positions were surveyed for class 317s and needed to be
repositioned / resurveyed for use by 321s. I think that this was due
to the 317s having a side cab window, which the 321s lack (the door
window being further back than the 317 cab window). This work was
never done and so 321s remain crew operated. Several platforms have
lost their mirrors during the WCML rebuilding / platform lengthening.

The second man is there to sell the tickets on the Stahlbahns line,
isn't he ?

CCTV is not necessary, as the 313s on the Watford - Euston line don't
use it at all stations. For example, see this picture at Kenton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:K...northbound.JPG

where you can see the Southbound DOO mirror (at the 3 car stop), but
no CCTV monitor. I think that CCTV is only required where the platform
is curved (or maybe on the 'wrong' side of the train). Kenton does
have CCTV at the platform ends, for use by the Bakerloo trains.