On 14 Dec, 13:04, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote :

Of course there's a new operator on the scene in
January who's stated their intention to resolve matters,
so it'll be interesting to see how they do so - no
possibility of penalty fares so it's either prosecution or
being set free (though possibly only to somewhere
outside the zonal system)... or is it - we shall see I
suppose.

So long as he moves the depot from where its ownership is disputed, he gets
my vote. What d'ya mean, he doesn't want it?

He'll be wary of setting them free without installing some kind of satellite
tracking; they'll have a travel card talking to one satellite, and an ankle
bracelet talking to another. Is there a word for that, besides 'asbo'?

My I coin the phrase 'Anti-Social Terrorist Order' - I'll share credit
with you for that one!

[off topic]

"Mizter T" wrote :
He'll be wary of setting them free without installing some kind of
satellite
tracking; they'll have a travel card talking to one satellite, and an
ankle
bracelet talking to another. Is there a word for that, besides 'asbo'?
My I coin the phrase 'Anti-Social Terrorist Order' - I'll share credit
with you for that one!

Hmmm.
How about 'National Anti-Social Terrorist Injunction'

Let's face it, telling them not to do it again is much more likely than a 99
year sentence!

;o)

On 13 Dec, 09:07, Mizter T wrote:
On 13 Dec, 08:38, sweek wrote:

It is switched on and it still seems to be causing quite a few
problems. I may be wrong here but are the gates working in both
directions at the same time? That's what it looked like the last few
days to me. They really need to make sure that people from 17/18 exit
via platform 19 as we almost didn't make our trains due to the high
number of people trying to get off via the small number of gates at
17/18.

No standard gates that I've ever come across are bi-directional at the
same time - that would cause a total nightmare with people walking
head-first into each other all the time! Instead gates can simply be
switched from one direction to the other as required by traffic flow.

Thats how the New York subway is and its a nightmare at rush hour!!!

In article ,
(Sarah Brown) wrote:

In article ,
Matthew Dickinson wrote:
The gateline at Waterloo mainline seems to be finished apart from a
few ceiling tiles and and some fencing.

As long as I pass through Waterloo gateline, I am in paradise.

Huh? What are you on, Sarah?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 14 Dec, 16:04, wrote:

On 13 Dec, 09:07, Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Dec, 08:38, sweek wrote:

It is switched on and it still seems to be causing quite a few
problems. I may be wrong here but are the gates working in both
directions at the same time? That's what it looked like the last few
days to me. They really need to make sure that people from 17/18 exit
via platform 19 as we almost didn't make our trains due to the high
number of people trying to get off via the small number of gates at
17/18.

No standard gates that I've ever come across are bi-directional at the
same time - that would cause a total nightmare with people walking
head-first into each other all the time! Instead gates can simply be
switched from one direction to the other as required by traffic flow.

Thats how the New York subway is and its a nightmare at rush hour!!!


Oh right. Been a while since I've been there, and when I was I
evidently didn't notice this - didn't travel during rush-hour mind
you, and was perhaps somewhat less observant of such things in the
past.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:02:00 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line
offers ungated access to the LU network

So, last time I checked, did Kensington Olympia.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:07:27 -0600,
wrote:

I can confirm that we only have Anytime Singles between Cambridge and
London now.

I assume and suspect that the reason for this is that the Off-Peak Day
Return is priced higher than the Anytime Single. Off-Peak Singles
only tend to occur on the railway when it would otherwise anomalously
be the case that a return is cheaper than a single, and when they do
occur they tend to be priced at 5p less than the associated return.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:07:10 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:


On 13 Dec, 08:38, sweek wrote:
It is switched on and it still seems to be causing quite a few
problems. I may be wrong here but are the gates working in both
directions at the same time? That's what it looked like the last few
days to me. They really need to make sure that people from 17/18 exit
via platform 19 as we almost didn't make our trains due to the high
number of people trying to get off via the small number of gates at
17/18.

No standard gates that I've ever come across are bi-directional at the
same time - that would cause a total nightmare with people walking
head-first into each other all the time! Instead gates can simply be
switched from one direction to the other as required by traffic flow.

I think we need to be careful about definitions here given some of the
other comments. Gate aisles can be configured to be permanently set for
entry or exit while others have the ability to be both. On the air
gates on LU this meant they had 4 paddles while with the electric gates
they simply adjust their position but use 2 paddles. For rail
applications in the UK I am not aware of any standard width gate that
works on the basis of "first come, first served" in that it can be entry
or exit depending on which ticket transport / card reader is activated
first.

As Barry S has correctly pointed out the new wide aisle gates can
operate in this way but then they are typically lower use than the
normal gates and so this is permissible as well as sensible given they
have replaced manual gates.

The only place I have seen using "first come, first served" is the New
York Subway but it should be remembered that as it is flat fare
validation (or swiping) only occurs on entry. The aisles are controlled
by turnstiles rather than paddle style gates so they work in a similar
fashion to the turnstiles governing entry to Network Rail toilets at
main stations. It's a long while since I used the subway but I have
used it in the peak and it's not easy to get out if the predominant flow
is entry!

In Tokyo they have two person per aisle gates which means there are two
sets of paddles at either end of the longer stanchions. One person can
be exiting while another person is entering behind them. I think you can
get about 60 people per minute through a walkway which is needed for the
vast volumes of people that Tokyo's railways handle.

I can't believe for a second that SWT have specified or would use the
gates at Waterloo in "first come, first served" mode as it would be
chaos. They've got one heck of a learning curve to deal with anyway
with such a large array and such huge volumes of people. The other
interesting factor will be the peak hour subway and their cunning plan
to shove everyone through an undercroft to reach a gate array that might
cope with the volumes. I can see that being a big challenge for them to
get right - especially if the train service falls over and they get huge
surges of people.

--
Paul C

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:02:00 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line
offers ungated access to the LU network

So, last time I checked, did Kensington Olympia.

and several stations where you can transfer from a National Rail train which
was joined at an ungated station to a LUL train without passing through
gates (e.g. Stratford, Harrow & Wealdstone, Greenford, Farringdon, Highbury
& Islington, Upminster, etc).

Peter

On 14 Dec, 18:38, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"Neil Williams" wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:02:00 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line
offers ungated access to the LU network

So, last time I checked, did Kensington Olympia.

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that it was the only one! It's no big
secret to say Finsbury Park is another - though it's particularly
notable because it's so busy. Paul C suggested a little while back
that there might be a new plan to gate this station in the pipeline,
but it does present particular difficulties. Another thing to bear in
mind is that at some smaller stations, particularly those further out
of town, the gateline might not be staffed all the time hence the
gates will have to be left open - that said the recent shift of staff
out of ticket offices and out onto the station will have freed up more
to be on gateline duties, which helps to keep the gates operational
(i.e. closed).


and several stations where you can transfer from a National Rail train which
was joined at an ungated station to a LUL train without passing through
gates (e.g. Stratford, Harrow & Wealdstone, Greenford, Farringdon, Highbury
& Islington, Upminster, etc).


Quite - the LU network is far from existing in its own hermetically
sealed bubble.