In article , (Bearded) wrote:

VEHICLE & PAX
In the days of the "traditional: double-decker, eg Routemaster,
conductors would call 'seats on top" and persuade passengers to go
up rather than stand in the lower saloon.

Standing capacity was limited, with none of what the old
regulations used to call "perambulators or other wheeled
conveyance" - in other words, baby "buggies"

Actually, the space under the stairs was for stowing things like (folded)
buggies and quite well used as such in my schooldays.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2 Feb, 10:43, Ian Jelf wrote:

Travel West Midlands (not normally an organisation capable of giving
advice to London) are running this morning, at least on the main roads
and certainly with delays. * Of course, I'm up here today and not in
London so can't fully compare conditions. * However, there's more snow
here than we've had for a long time.

The snow was about twice as deep in London as Milton Keynes.

Notably, though, MK Metro operated (to a fashion) on the day about 3-4
years ago when there was heavy snowfall and the Council forgot to grit
until it was too late, making all the roads (including main ones) in
MK a skating rink. That said, I was surprised they did, as the bus I
got (after an hour of waiting) was sliding around to a ridiculous
extent, and would have hit things a few times had there been a normal
number of cars out.

Neil

Folded is of course the key word. At least in this part of the world
most of the buggies look totally un-foldable - and even with those
which are, users look shocked if a driver asks them to fold because the
bus is busy.

My neighbour is totally fed up with these bulky "baby chariots" as she
calls them. She travels with a lightweight buggy which can open and
close with one hand, a front sling to carry baby on the bus or in the
supermarket, and a backpack to carry all the stuff. She is far more
mobile than the "charioteers" !

On 2009-02-03 10:39:52 +0000, said:

In article , (Bearded) wrote:

VEHICLE & PAX
In the days of the "traditional: double-decker, eg Routemaster,
conductors would call 'seats on top" and persuade passengers to go
up rather than stand in the lower saloon.

Standing capacity was limited, with none of what the old
regulations used to call "perambulators or other wheeled
conveyance" - in other words, baby "buggies"

Actually, the space under the stairs was for stowing things like (folded)
buggies and quite well used as such in my schooldays.


--
Writer / editor on London's River

James Farrar wrote:

False analogy, since a double decker having its top sliced off is
invariably the result of human error but an uncontrollable bendy on
bad roads is the result of climate error, for want of a better phrase.

I think a bendy on ice can slide into a position from which escape is not
possible without a chainsaw, even after the ice had melted.

"Andrew Heenan" wrote in message
...
"Paul Scott" wrote
Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back
half of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with
them...

But the regular pictures of double deckers being cut up by low bridges
never stopped you boarding them, I'll bet.

No, as a reason for TfL not to use them yesterday... I don't have a view on
the 'other' bendy debate.

Paul S

"Tom Barry" wrote in message
...
Paul Scott wrote:


Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back
half of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with
them...


... when it's snowing exceptionally intensively and the roads haven't been
gritted/ploughed?

Yes that...

....Or is this just the usual prejudice that jumps on any evidence,
however reed-thin, bypassing the usual processes of rational thought?

I don't take a view on the other bendy debate...

Paul

In message , lid
writes
ROADS, ROUTES & TRAFFIC

The roads are MUCH busier, with many more vehicles of all kinds -
including buses.

Yes, I'm sure that's an issue. We travel for work and more notably for
school generally MUCH further than used to happen in the days before
parental choice became as great as it is now.


Here in SE London, the routes for both my local buses [244 and 380]
operate predominantly in residential roads.

The 380 in particular covers what must be one of the most challenging
routes in London on the section from Woolwich Dockyard to Blackheath -
steep hills, tight corners, lots of parked cars on both sides of the
road, and often very tight clearances, particularly where vans and SUVs
are parked.


I think the same about the W3 and W5 which traverse some roads around
Harringay and Stroud Green which I'm sure would not have been ever
remotely passable to a bus yesterday.

However, particular problems with some roads should not, I feel - have
resulted in a blanket cessation of London bus services on all routes.
(I feel the same about the "blanket" closure of schools here in the West
Midlands. A total over-reaction.)

Yes, they were exception conditions; yes we've not seen it quite like
this for a long time; yes there's more traffic; yes society is more
litigious.

But we are talking here about heavy levels of snow, not unprecedented
ones. We are talking about a city of getting on for 8 million people,
the economic centre of a region with perhaps twice that population.
Damn it, we're talking about what is probably the most "important"
single city in the world. The snow *was* forecast and the maximum
amount admissible of public transport should have run.

SO: not lawyer-itis, not elfnsafety, and for goodness sake, not lazy
bus drivers. Just common sense.

One thing I never for a moment thought it was was "lazy" bus drivers.


[1] I have mobility problems, requiring the use of a stick, and with
limited articulation of the knee can only fit into one or two seats.
Which group of pax most often allow me to board first and/or offer me
seats: black women aged mid-20s to 40s, particularly those with
children, who are often told "let the gentleman sit there - he needs
that seat more than you do" - and then provide interesting and engaging
travel companions.
Which least? White men, particularly under-40s.

I had to taker a group of elderly and not very mobile people for
Yorkshire on the District Line from Westminster to Tower Hill once (long
story). They were astonished at how - as we boarded the train - people
*everywhere* rose up together to offer them their seats. They said
that that wouldn't have happened back home on a bus or train. They
thought Londoners were great and were still talking about it when I
looked after them again a year later!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"James Farrar" wrote in :
"Paul Scott" wrote
Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back
half of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with
them...
But the regular pictures of double deckers being cut up by low bridges
never stopped you boarding them, I'll bet.
False analogy, since a double decker having its top sliced off is
invariably the result of human error but an uncontrollable bendy on bad
roads is the result of climate error, for want of a better phrase.

Not really, except in very rare cases. I don't watch Ch4, but I'm pretty
confident that London's weather yesterday was not severe enough to remove
driver responsibility (assuming the event was as described, and not, uh,
exaggerated). Don't forget that no Bendy was allowed out until the roads
were pretty clear; Bendies in Eastern Europe work fine on three inches of
packed ice throughout the winter without blaming accidents (should there be
any) on global warming.
--

Andrew
http://www.realnurse.net/

On Feb 3, 12:19*pm, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:
Not really, except in very rare cases. I don't watch Ch4, but I'm pretty
confident that London's weather yesterday was not severe enough to remove
driver responsibility (assuming the event was as described, and not, uh,
exaggerated). Don't forget that no Bendy was allowed out until the roads
were pretty clear; Bendies in Eastern Europe work fine on three inches of
packed ice throughout the winter without blaming accidents (should there be
any) on global warming.

Don't they run with snow chains, tho'?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

"John B" wrote ...
On Feb 3, 12:19 pm, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:
Bendies in Eastern Europe work fine on three inches of
packed ice throughout the winter without blaming accidents (should there
be
any) on global warming.

Don't they run with snow chains, tho'?

Not routinely, no.
On the BBC news yesterday, I saw a Russian bus tyre with steel studs, but
I'm pretty sure (tho not 100%) that even they are not daily wear on winter
buses - though I'd guess they'd be essential in hilly country!

But it's all by-the-by - the bus routes in London were very clear by
lunchtime yesteday; a bit of wet, some mild sleety snow and temperatures
about -1 to +1 degrees; in the normal stride of any bus.

--

Andrew

"If A is success in life, then A = x + y + z.
Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut." ~ Albert Einstein