MIG wrote:

No announcement at any time on either occasion and I think a rather
disgraceful way to treat people.

I had a not dissimilar experience at Glasgow Queen Street, last year.
Services were disrupted and I arrived at QS at 18:15 on a weekday evening,
to find the station deserted (in terms of trains). I was heading for
Edinburgh Haymarket and wasn't in a desperate rush, so when the stock
finally arrived for the 18:15 train, I let it go, as it was chronically
overloaded.

The stock for the 18:30 train arrived (again late), a six-car class 170.
Passengers were allowed onto the platform and began to board both three-car
units. Just before departure, I was concerned that the PIS had not been set
and I began to wonder if the two sets were being split. At that point I
noticed that the door interlock had been engaged. I banged on the window to
the platform staff, once it became evident that the front cab of the rear
unit had been opened and that another member of staff was in the cab. There
were upwards of twenty people in the unit and I gestured to the platform
staff that they were all expecting the whole set to go to Edinburgh. There
had been no platform announcements and there were no on-train announcements
and there was nothing showing on the monitors to indicate that the front
three cars *only* would form the Edinburgh service. Eventually, the doors
were released and we were allowed to detrain, just at the point that the
doors were locked on the front three cars and the unit departed for
Edinburgh, leaving all of us to wait for the 18:45!

Again, there was total disinterest from the platform staff and the driving
staff, who had falsely imprisoned us and disrupted our journeys, and no
apologies for the incompetence and lack of information or warnings. The
three cars that we had been trapped in eventually formed an Aberdeen train.

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 14:03:03 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

There seems to be a very bizarre attitude to locking passengers in
without explanation.

Was on the Eurotunnel car shuttle on Saturday, when half way through
the tunnel we stopped suddenly and half the lights went out. We then
remained stationary for a few minutes and started off again slowly,
but it was only after a few more minutes that there was a mumbled
announcement about technical problems (I'm guessing one of the two
locos had failed) and running at reduced speed.

Given that quite a few people are nervous about travelling in the
Tunnel, especially were all the lights to fail and with the recent
fires, I was rather disappointed about the lack of a more timely
announcement.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 14:03:03 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

There seems to be a very bizarre attitude to locking passengers in
without explanation.

Was on the Eurotunnel car shuttle on Saturday, when half way through
the tunnel we stopped suddenly and half the lights went out. We then
remained stationary for a few minutes and started off again slowly,
but it was only after a few more minutes that there was a mumbled
announcement about technical problems (I'm guessing one of the two
locos had failed) and running at reduced speed.

Given that quite a few people are nervous about travelling in the
Tunnel, especially were all the lights to fail and with the recent
fires, I was rather disappointed about the lack of a more timely
announcement.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.


I've been in a tube train (circa around 1985, District line Wimbledon) with
a modest (but potentially life threatening fire) ablaze in the carriage one
up ahead of me.

Let's just say that that 3 minute journey was probably the longest 3 minute
railway journey of my life.

I deliberately chose NOT to pull the alarm until the train reached the next
stop. The matter was quickly resolved at the next stop. It transpires it was
a fault with the motor below the carriage which was calmly isolated by the
driver.

Old trains were quite leaky.

I hate the claustrophobic feeling of the modern stock. You can't open the
windows. You can't open the doors. They are hermetically sealed.

Give me a slam door Mk1 any day! (And about one third of the electric power
required too).

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I also noticed a 321 in FCC livery at Hornsey this morning.

The first one was finished a couple of weeks ago (321 404 IIRC), the
remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC should be following shortly.

It was sat in the yard the other night on my way out to town tucked away on
a middle road

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing another fleet for
Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the 321/4s are not being transferred to
NXEA in return for a handful of their 317s returning to FCC, where they
would be (relatively) common with the home fleet, still escapes me!

Indeed - and us over at Liv St. We would love to see the back of the 317's
since they are in a state again thanks to NX. There are a couple of problems
though.

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or Cheshunt via
Southbury AFAIK.

They would have to spend money on any new 321's for the Airport services -
and I don't know that there passed to work the airport anyway.

On 23 Mar, 15:40, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

I also noticed a 321 in FCC livery at Hornsey this morning.

The first one was finished a couple of weeks ago (321 404 IIRC), the
remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC should be following shortly.

It was sat in the yard the other night on my way out to town tucked away on
a middle road

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing another fleet for
Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the 321/4s are not being transferred to
NXEA in return for a handful of their 317s returning to FCC, where they
would be (relatively) common with the home fleet, still escapes me!

Indeed - and us over at Liv St. We would love to see the back of the 317's
since they are in a state again thanks to NX. There are a couple of problems
though.

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or Cheshunt via
Southbury AFAIK.

They would have to spend money on any new 321's for the Airport services -
and I don't know that there passed to work the airport anyway.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built for the
Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't goto Enfield
Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that route when they ran to
Stansted.

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting the
321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is DfT
involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 06:56:20PM +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

The most sensible option by far would be beacons by the trackside at
stations, i suppose. These needn't be expensive - RFIDs rather than
eurobalises or something. Sensors on the train, and only open a door if
there's a beacon within a metre of it. Easy and cheap.

I would have thought that the most sensible option would be to trust the
driver - he who we already trust to do a far more complicated job
correctly - to open the right doors at the right time and place.
Perhaps he could be assisted by having signs next to where he stops that
say "open doors on other side" and "open doors on first seven carriages
only". Oh, wait, the first of those already exists!

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

I apologize if I offended you personally,
I intended to do it professionally.
-- Steve Champeon, on the nanog list

wrote in message
...

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or Cheshunt via
Southbury AFAIK.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built for the
Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't goto Enfield
Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that route when they ran to
Stansted.

Hmm good point. Before my commuting time where those units so I never saw
one out here. I can't think I've *ever* seen a 321 on 'our side' in the last
15 years+

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting the
321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is DfT
involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

I Don't know how many we have at the moment, I didn't think it was a lot but
I know it was split with FCC.

They could get rid of the 317/5's (Awful units) and the one off /7 they did
and keep the 6's

Aren't FCC in line to get the ex NLL 313's ? and I'm sure someone on here
said something about some more 315's coming our way (Although I don't know
who else has any)

remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC should be following shortly.

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing another fleet for
Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the 321/4s are not being transferred to
NXEA in return for a handful of their 317s returning to FCC, where they
would be (relatively) common with the home fleet, still escapes me!

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting the
321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is DfT
involved, we shouldn't be surprised.


Its even odder to me in that all 321 are Brush electrics and all 317
GEC - so there is an engineering reason for the 321 - NXEA - 317 -
FCC suggestion as well. Its just more hassle for Hornsey with fitter
training and familiarity, spare parts holdings, etc.

--
Nick

wrote:

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing another
fleet for Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the 321/4s are not being
transferred to NXEA in return for a handful of their 317s
returning to FCC, where they would be (relatively) common with the
home fleet, still escapes me!

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting
the 321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is DfT
involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

Its even odder to me in that all 321 are Brush electrics and all 317
GEC - so there is an engineering reason for the 321 - NXEA - 317 -
FCC suggestion as well. Its just more hassle for Hornsey with fitter
training and familiarity, spare parts holdings, etc.

Which was exactly my original thinking. It seems mad, on so many levels.

On Mar 23, 6:46*pm, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
wrote in message

...

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or Cheshunt via
Southbury AFAIK.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built for the
Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't goto Enfield
Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that route when they ran to
Stansted.

Hmm good point. Before my commuting time where those units so I never saw
one out here. I can't think I've *ever* seen a 321 on 'our side' in the last
15 years+


Having checked my records, I had 321 362 from Broxbourne - Southbury -
Liverpool Street on 15/09/1990 and have had several other units on the
Cambridge - Seven Sisters - Liverpool Street route around the same
time.

As an aside, during the August 1991Network Day, I had a ride on 322
483 on the Clacton branch and we clipped the platform edge at (I
think) Wivenhoe. The steps on the 322 unitss were slightly different
to those on the 321s which had been cleared to Clacton already.

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting the
321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is DfT
involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

I Don't know how many we have at the moment, I didn't think it was a lot but
I know it was split with FCC.


NXEA have all the 317 5xx (15 units), 6xx (24 units), 7xx (9 units)
and 8xx (12 units) and FCC only have the remaining unconverted 317 3xx
(12 units). So maybe FCC should get more 321s and cascade their
remaining 317s to NXEA. I must say, I hadn't realised that FCC had so
few 317s left.

They could get rid of the 317/5's (Awful units) and the one off /7 they did
and keep the 6's

Of course, the 317/3, 317/5, /7 and /8 are all the same basic unit,
with different interiors.


Aren't FCC in line to get the ex NLL 313's ? and I'm sure someone on here
said something about some more 315's coming our way (Although I don't know
who else has any)

FCC should be getting most of the NLL 313s, but NXEA already have all
the 315s, since the Liverpool Street - Cambridge route went to them at
the franchise changeover.