On Mar 24, 10:00 pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:30:24 on Tue,
24 Mar 2009, Paul Terry remarked:

The was a time when there was a mini rush hour at about 10:30 in the
evening when the theater shows ended. I don't know if that is still
the case.

It is. Between 10pm and 11pm it is often impossible to board a
westbound Piccadilly train at Leicester Square because of the crowds. I
often let several go before finding one that I can just about get
shoe-horned into - even then it's often standing room only until
Hammersmith.

but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity
services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards.
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross is pretty busy - the 2315 to Cambridge (and Ely/Kings
Lynn) loads well, and the last Leeds train isn't till 2330. St Pancras
probably is asleep by 2000, like the backwaters it serves.......

On 24 Mar, 18:01, The Real Doctor wrote:

Anyway, I don't think it's cold at all. It's a lovely airy space, and
viewed from the balcony is really quite exhilarating.

Never been on there. I keep meaning, when delayed, to have a meal in
the pub that's up there, but always end up not doing in the end.

But I really do like Euston. Just about its only major fault (now the
obstructive retail units have been removed) is the "rush" for trains
when they're called - and I think that could be easily resolved by
calling them far earlier (say as soon as the train has cleared of
passengers after arrival) and just locking the passenger doors while
cleaning is in progress.

Neil

On 24 Mar, 22:00, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 18:30:24 on Tue,
24 Mar 2009, Paul Terry remarked:

The was a time when there was a mini rush hour at about 10:30 in the
evening when the theater shows ended. *I don't know if that is still
the case.

It is. Between 10pm and 11pm it is often impossible to board a
westbound Piccadilly train at Leicester Square because of the crowds. I
often let several go before finding one that I can just about get
shoe-horned into - even then it's often standing room only until
Hammersmith.

but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity
services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards.

No they're not - e.g. King's Cross, Liverpool Street, London Bridge,
Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria are all far from deserted after 8pm.

In message
, at
03:29:01 on Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Mizter T remarked:
but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity
services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards.

No they're not - e.g. King's Cross, Liverpool Street, London Bridge,
Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria are all far from deserted after 8pm.

Different definitions of "deserted" perhaps.
--
Roland Perry

On 25 Mar, 13:58, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
03:29:01 on Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Mizter T remarked:

but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity
services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards.

No they're not - e.g. King's Cross, Liverpool Street, London Bridge,
Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria are all far from deserted after 8pm.

Different definitions of "deserted" perhaps.

Perhaps!

On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:30:11 -0700 (PDT), TimB
wrote:

Kings Cross is pretty busy - the 2315 to Cambridge (and Ely/Kings
Lynn) loads well, and the last Leeds train isn't till 2330. St Pancras
probably is asleep by 2000, like the backwaters it serves.......

Euston is busy enough as well, but it's almost all local passengers -
the late evening Wolves and Manc trains carry the majority of their
passengers to MKC.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mar 24, 11:38*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

Yes, but (Crossrail aside, which is a good point if the terminus was
in the west) they will have to use it for longer, which will offset
some of the gains.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

I think the headline figure of 30 minutes is a little bit misleading
in a number of ways anyway.

Consider that Old Oak Common to Solihull is almost exactly 100 miles
by the Chiltern route. Heathrow to Birmingham International station
is 104 miles by the obvious motorway route. About 5 miles of that is
getting from the M25 to terminals 123 at Heathrow. Willesden
Junction to Birmingham International is 99 miles by the WCML. I
think it’s fair to assume that it’s at least 98 miles from a station
in the Old Oak Common area to a motorway parkway station southeast of
Birmingham. Assume that the train averages 210 mph for the entire
journey. That's 28 minutes right there. That's before you allow
time for the train starting at OOC or stopping at the airport
parkway. I'll leave it to others to comment on whether 210 mph
average is believeable, but I suspect that it's overly optimistic
since it's more than the current operational _maximum_ speed of LGV
Est.

At the Birmingham end, such a parkway station is well located for
those arriving by car, but I’m less convinced about its suitability
for those continuing by public transport, or for those who actually
want to access central Birmingham. Virgin’s trains take an addition
12 minutes to reach New Street from Birmingham international, and
Chiltern’s are timed at 12 minutes from Solihull to Moor Street.
Admittedly in the latter case, the time includes the station dwell
time Solihull. If, as is suggested, you intend to use European
style double deck stock, you either need to build a new line into
central Birmingham, or you need to improve the existing lines, or
passengers will have to change trains. Allowing for some dwell time
at the parkway station, it’s probably 45 minutes to central Birmingham
from OOC. It’s also worth pointing out that the current Virgin
service is 1:10 to Birmingham International. I suspect [without much
real evidence] that with a little more tweaking, 140mph running, and
non-stop service, Virgin could get the Euston-Birmingham International
service below an hour.

At the London end, much depends on whether (as the article seems to
suggest) the OOC station is a terminus, or there is onward service to
central London. In the latter case, Javelin timings from Stratford
(7 minutes) plus time for a station stop suggest that journeys into
central London would require at least another 10 minutes. That gives
a center to center time around 55 minutes. If it’s a terminus, you
are stuck with onward journeys via Crossrail or the WLL. The WLL
offers infrequent services to not much of anywhere. So it’s fair to
say that unless you are going somewhere well served by Crossrail, or
you happen to be trying to get to the Old Oak Common area your journey
from OOC to your destination is going to be longer than it is today
from Euston. Moreover, Euston to Tottenham Court Road is likely to
have a journey time similar to that from OOC to TCR on Crossrail, so
service to the docklands isn’t going to be any better. Notable
destinations that are likely to see significant increases in London
local journey times are Victoria, Westminster, Euston and Kings Cross.

Am Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:38:41 UTC, schrieb
(Neil Williams) auf uk.railway :

OK, I got that point. But does London have one particular center
like one place or street crossing where everything happens and where
everybody wants or has to go? Don't people who arrive at Euston Road
from somewhere north do not have to use "the creakingly slow
LUL/LOROL", buses, or taxis?

Yes, but (Crossrail aside, which is a good point if the terminus was
in the west) they will have to use it for longer, which will offset
some of the gains.

How about _two_ HSLs from London to "the North",

-- one leaving central London to the West, stopping at or near
Heathrow airport, and then speeding up North to Birmingham (maybe via
Oxford);

-- the other one leaving central London to the East, stopping at
Stratfort Int'l, then turning North with a station at Stanstead
airport, Cambridge, and then Leeds.

The two lines would be linked together with a central station
underneath Euston Road between Euston Station and King's Cross... The
Eastern branch would have a direct link coming from Ebbsfleet Int'l to
the North.


Cheers,
L.W.

-- -----------------------------------------------------

On 25 Mar, 20:22, "Lüko Willms" wrote:

(snip)

* How about _two_ HSLs from London to "the North",

-- one leaving central London to the West, stopping at or near
Heathrow airport, and then speeding up North to Birmingham (maybe via
Oxford);

-- the other one leaving central London to the East, stopping at
Stratfort Int'l, then turning North with a station at Stanstead
airport, Cambridge, and then Leeds.

* The two lines would be linked together with a central station
underneath Euston Road between Euston Station and King's Cross... The
Eastern branch would have a direct link coming from Ebbsfleet Int'l to
the North.


Excellent. Not quite sure what happens to the evicted Circle/Met line,
water and gas mains and sewer that currently reside underneath Euston
Road. I'm pretty sure the British Library is fairly firmly installed
at their new-ish location too.

Neil Williams wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:06:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Although, I am not convinced that a Central London (Well Camden)
terminal is impossible. Accessing Euston with its spare capacity
would not be that difficult.

Not having a terminus in Central London seems to be madness, as you'd
lose a lot of time getting to/from the terminus by creakingly slow
LUL/LOROL.

Euston would seem to be a good idea, given that it (unlike the other
termini) has plenty of spare platform capacity.

In this BBC piece today about Adonis' latest speech:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7964727.stm
"...A Times newspaper [article] has suggested there might be an interchange
near Wormwood Scrubs in west London, where passengers would switch onto the
Crossrail line - also scheduled for construction - into London.

"The rail industry doesn't think much of that idea," commented the BBC's Tom
Symonds. "Its got to go into Euston," he quoted a senior engineer at the
conference as saying.

Paul