In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:47:27 -0600,
wrote:

A simpler solution would be to run a through Circle service at Edgware
Road as was done for over 100 years.

Which didn't work for over 100 years. There is a very good reason why
Circle Line trains are regarded by some as a myth.

You seem to be applying a very severe test of "didn;t work". It never let
me down when I used it, unlike the shambles that is Edgware Road station.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 14:17:52
on Mon, 11 Jan 2010, remarked:
I must get someone to show me this supposed step-free route to the
Piccadilly Line at King's Cross.

Northern ticket hall, lift down to new passageways; short lift down to
platforms. (The only access that's not finished yet is the lift down
from the old concourse to the Northern Line platforms)

The current access to the Northern ticket hall from King's Cross main
line is not step-free.

There are five that I can think of (are you saying some are out of
action temporarily). Working around the complex clockwise:

There's a lift just inside the St Pancras extension that goes up to the
Kent platforms and down to the passageway to the NTH. There's another
lift by the stairs which come out near the KX Suburban platforms. The
third lift is by the stairs that give access to the KX mainlaine
concourse near the large departure board, and the fourth is out by the
main road and leads down to the old concourse, which is then a level
passageway all the way to the NTH. The fifth lift is inside the western
ticket hall and gives access from road level to the barrier level, which
connected by a level passage to the old KX tube concourse.

All but the first mentioned are on this diagram I did a year ago, from
various plans, before it all opened ...

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-com...with-lifts.jpg

(the numbers refer to the kind of lift, not an ordering that they are
currently using on the signage - which doesn't include my first lift
because it appears to be regarded as a St Pancras mainline lift not a
tube station lift):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blech/4147448998/

The only lift from ground level only goes relevantly to the old tube
concourse which does not have step-free access to the Piccadilly Line.

That's the fourth one in my list above, top half of lift "D".
--
Roland Perry

wrote:

I must get someone to show me this supposed step-free route to the
Piccadilly Line at King's Cross. The current access to the Northern
ticket hall from King's Cross main line is not step-free.

Now that last point really is a load of rubbish.

Helpfully RP has given you a full brief, I'd have just suggested reading the
bloody signs.

Paul S

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Mike Bristow wrote:

In article i,
Tom Anderson wrote:
Transfer the Hammersmith branch to Crossrail.

Crossrail platforms are 240m long, IIRC. C-Stock trains are 6 car and
are - what, 90m long or so? I'm not sure how expensive it would be to
doble the length of all the stations en-route, but my gut feel is
"lots".

More precisely, "****ing masses".

Now, 7-car S-stock is, AIUI, going to be able to work the Hammersmith
branch without any platform extensions, and those trains are 117.4 m long.
Crossrail trains are pairs of five-car units, where i assume each car is
the usual 20 metres long, so 200 m. But half a train is 100 m long ...

Failing that, turn it into a GW branch that terminates at Paddington.

Which would remove a lot of the utility of the line.

An argument which failed to save the Circle!

tom

--
No Hype Just Science

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:55:17 -0600,
wrote:

You seem to be applying a very severe test of "didn;t work". It never let
me down when I used it, unlike the shambles that is Edgware Road station.

Untimetabled 20 to 30 minute gaps in service on a city metro mean it
isn't working in any sense.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 12 Jan, 17:37, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:55:17 -0600,
wrote:

You seem to be applying a very severe test of "didn;t work". It never let
me down when I used it, unlike the shambles that is Edgware Road station.

Untimetabled 20 to 30 minute gaps in service on a city metro mean it
isn't working in any sense.

Neil


I agree entirely about the mythical quality of the Circle as it was.
Non-existent if I wanted to go, say, Victoria to Aldgate (but always
the first thing to turn up if I wanted to go Victoria to Cannon
Street).

But I can't understand why such unrealistic, not to mention customer-
unfriendly, demands on Edgware Road are considered to be a cure not
worse than the disease.

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
14:17:52 on Mon, 11 Jan 2010, remarked:
I must get someone to show me this supposed step-free route to the
Piccadilly Line at King's Cross.

Northern ticket hall, lift down to new passageways; short lift down
to platforms. (The only access that's not finished yet is the lift
down from the old concourse to the Northern Line platforms)

The current access to the Northern ticket hall from King's Cross main
line is not step-free.

There are five that I can think of (are you saying some are out of
action temporarily). Working around the complex clockwise:

There's a lift just inside the St Pancras extension that goes up to
the Kent platforms and down to the passageway to the NTH. There's
another lift by the stairs which come out near the KX Suburban
platforms. The third lift is by the stairs that give access to the
KX mainlaine concourse near the large departure board, and the
fourth is out by the main road and leads down to the old concourse,
which is then a level passageway all the way to the NTH. The fifth
lift is inside the western ticket hall and gives access from road
level to the barrier level, which connected by a level passage to
the old KX tube concourse.

All but the first mentioned are on this diagram I did a year ago,
from various plans, before it all opened ...

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-com...with-lifts.jpg

(the numbers refer to the kind of lift, not an ordering that they
are currently using on the signage - which doesn't include my first
lift because it appears to be regarded as a St Pancras mainline
lift not a tube station lift):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blech/4147448998/

The only lift from ground level only goes relevantly to the old tube
concourse which does not have step-free access to the Piccadilly Line.

That's the fourth one in my list above, top half of lift "D".

You seem to be assuming that the lifts are all completed. I'm only talking
about access from King's Cross concourse which is not yet completed. I
can't see any access to the Northern ticket hall from King's Cross which
is presently open that is not down steps, apart from the old lift by the
front of the station. I don't regard as travel via St Pancras as a
credible route. The lift at the front of King's Cross would be a squeeze
with a bike, by the way. But I carry my bike up and down stairs. I'd just
rather not do so at a station like Edgware Road where the signage is so
crap you can't be sure which platform you need.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message ,
writes

That's the fourth one in my list above, top half of lift "D".

You seem to be assuming that the lifts are all completed. I'm only talking
about access from King's Cross concourse which is not yet completed. I
can't see any access to the Northern ticket hall from King's Cross which
is presently open that is not down steps, apart from the old lift by the
front of the station. I don't regard as travel via St Pancras as a
credible route. The lift at the front of King's Cross would be a squeeze
with a bike, by the way. But I carry my bike up and down stairs. I'd just
rather not do so at a station like Edgware Road where the signage is so
crap you can't be sure which platform you need.

Of course you'll carry your bike all the way down to the DLTs and then
some jobsworth (did I say that?) will tell you that you can't carry an
unfolded bike down there.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In article , ] (Steve
Fitzgerald) wrote:

Of course you'll carry your bike all the way down to the DLTs and
then some jobsworth (did I say that?) will tell you that you can't
carry an unfolded bike down there.

DLTs?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
says...
In article , ] (Steve
Fitzgerald) wrote:

Of course you'll carry your bike all the way down to the DLTs and
then some jobsworth (did I say that?) will tell you that you can't
carry an unfolded bike down there.

DLTs?


Presumably Deep Level Tubes