On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

On 2016\01\14 14:07, e27002 aurora wrote:

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

Why? 18 platforms of Intercity travel? Would you stop the Victoria Line
and Northern line from calling there just in case the 160 metro tph
change the emphasis?

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for
HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services
will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that
the need has faded.

With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would
be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there.

OOC will be an important both as an interchange (with HS2 and LO) and as a
destination in its own so it's not a bad idea for Crossrail to terminate
many of its trains there. Also, if Heathrow Express fades away once
Crossrail opens, it might take over the HEx services to the airport,
meaning that 8 tph Crossrail could be headed there.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:01:28 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 14:07, e27002 aurora wrote:

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

Why? 18 platforms of Intercity travel?

Because we are approaching saturation point for intercity terminal
platforms. Paddington s full, OK, it will gain some relief from
Crossrail. Marylebone is full, Saint Pancras's Midland platforms are
full. Kings Cross is close to at capacity. There is not much spare
space at Liverpool St.

Euston may be able to provide some relief. Moreover, most commuters
are heading for the West End or City, not Euston.

Would you stop the Victoria Line
and Northern line from calling there just in case the 160 metro tph
change the emphasis?

Not at all. Moreover, Euston Square should be incorporated into the
interchange.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\01\14 14:07, e27002 aurora wrote:

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

Why? 18 platforms of Intercity travel? Would you stop the Victoria Line
and Northern line from calling there just in case the 160 metro tph
change the emphasis?

Adrian also seems to have forgotten your beloved 3 tph LO service.

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:01:28 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 14:07, e27002 aurora wrote:

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

Why? 18 platforms of Intercity travel?

Because we are approaching saturation point for intercity terminal
platforms. Paddington s full, OK, it will gain some relief from
Crossrail. Marylebone is full, Saint Pancras's Midland platforms are
full. Kings Cross is close to at capacity. There is not much spare
space at Liverpool St.

Both Kings X and Liverpool St will be relieved within four years.


Euston may be able to provide some relief. Moreover, most commuters
are heading for the West End or City, not Euston.

Would you stop the Victoria Line
and Northern line from calling there just in case the 160 metro tph
change the emphasis?

Not at all. Moreover, Euston Square should be incorporated into the
interchange.

Yes, that's part of the HS2 Euston rebuilding plan.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:01:28 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 14:07, e27002 aurora wrote:

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

Why? 18 platforms of Intercity travel?

Because we are approaching saturation point for intercity terminal
platforms. Paddington s full, OK, it will gain some relief from
Crossrail. Marylebone is fill, Saint Pancras's Midland platforms are
full. Kings Cross is close to at capacity. There is not much spare
space at Liverpool St.

Euston may be able to provide some relief. Moreover, most commuters
are heading for the West End or City, not Euston.

Would you stop the Victoria Line
and Northern line from calling there just in case the 160 metro tph
change the emphasis?

Not at all. Moreover, Euston Square should be incorporated into the
interchange.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:09:27 +0000, Robert
wrote:

On 2016-01-14 13:55:32 +0000, Recliner said:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

Why this sudden fixation with changing the service to Hammersmith?
It's an inner city line with frequent stops, well-served with Circle
and H&C S7 trains that were designed for it. Adrian seems to have
some vendetta against the H&C, apparently because it's lost its
original Metropolitan Line links.

If Crossrail were to have an additional western destination, it should
be on a line that gets it out of inner London, such as the WCML (to
Tring) or the Chiltern (perhaps to Gerrards Cross).

As grade separated junctions seem to be all the rage nowadays (Hitchin,
Nuneaton, Doncaster, Norton Bridge, Reading, Stockley Bridge and Action
that I can think of!) I still feel that Windsor would make an excellent
end point for Crossrail. It could easily accept 4 trains per hour
off-peak - all those tourists - and it's not so far that the lack of
on-board toilets could start becoming uncomfortable (!)

Agreed. Unfortunately, it is not even being considered by the powers
that be.

That leaves another 10tph to be accounted for...

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for
HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services
will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that
the need has faded.

With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would
be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there.

According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago
it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would
have been taken over by CrossRail.

OOC will be an important both as an interchange (with HS2 and LO) and as a
destination in its own so it's not a bad idea for Crossrail to terminate
many of its trains there. Also, if Heathrow Express fades away once
Crossrail opens, it might take over the HEx services to the airport,
meaning that 8 tph Crossrail could be headed there.