Ding Bat wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 6:56:58 PM UTC+5:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:37:18 on
Tue, 23 May 2017, Recliner remarked:
"Lots of people fly into Heathrow wanting to visit ExCel? Really??"
During major exhibitions - yes - absolutely. For example, World Travel
Mart (held at Excel) is a "must attend" event in the travel business -
there are loads of people who fly in specifically to attend it. City
airport is much handier for Excel, but there are loads of places
(especially long haul) which don't have flights into City.

I'm aware of that show, and even have friends in that business (from
overseas) who exhibit. They fly in and out of Luton, incidentally.

It is, however, a tiny number of people compared to the million a day
who are predicted to use Crossrail, or the 80,000 a day who use
Heathrow.

Like other shows at Excel, it attracts about 15-20,000 a day, of whom
3,000 a day are actual travel buyers.

Out of that lot if more than 1,000 each of the three days have flown in
through Heathrow, rather than being based in the UK or using other
airports, E* etc to arrive from abroad, I'll eat my hat.

Of course, 1,000 top quality buyers is plenty if you have a selling
booth at WTM, but it's not a number to build a railway timetable around.

No, but we were discussing the attractions of Crossrail vs HEx. Any of
those visitors who currently use Heathrow and HEx will certainly
switch to Crossrail. And some who previously flew to Luton may switch
to LHR and Crossrail, too. Or they can change at Farringdon to
Crossrail.

It's just one example of the many flows that will use Crossrail rather
than HEx.

Yes, lots of "only quite a few" passengers.
--
Roland Perry

Does HEx have to continue to terminate at Paddington? Can't it go nonstop
to Paddington and then continue to Abbey Wood with the same stops as what
will replace Heathrow Connect?

Even if that were possible, how could it attract a premium fare in such a
case? And how could such a premium fare be enforced?

Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:
On Thu, 25 May 2017 15:45:41 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

AIUI the problem is the extra delays at level crossings which such a
route would generate.

Do they have to be level?

They already are. The abandoned proposal was for a service to Waterloo,
using existing tracks east of Staines.

The new approved plan is to go to Slough instead. I'm not clear if the
project is fully funded or not.

In message , at 17:05:50 on
Thu, 25 May 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:

AIUI the problem is the extra delays at level crossings which such a
route would generate.

Do they have to be level?

For the budget to be reasonable, yes.
--
Roland Perry

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 15:52:40 on Thu, 25 May 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Does HEx have to continue to terminate at Paddington? Can't it go nonstop
to Paddington and then continue to Abbey Wood with the same stops as what
will replace Heathrow Connect?

Even if that were possible, how could it attract a premium fare in such a
case? And how could such a premium fare be enforced?

On-board grippers, like they use today. For the leg from the airport to
Paddington, anyway. The rest they'd have offer interavailable ticketing
with Crossrail, which of course would abstract revenue from TfL.
--
Roland Perry

"Ding Bat" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 4:01:07 PM UTC+5:30, tim... wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at
05:59:21 on Wed, 24 May 2017, Ding Bat
remarked:
If construction is allowed in this pipe-dream, then the plan is to
extend the line through Terminal 5 towards Slough.

Ah, so there's such a thing already in the works! Thanks for the
information.
The underground portion of that line will be from T5 to Langley,
according
to this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-35803950

Projects like that are a minimum of five years late, so if it was
suggested they might start tunnelling soon, don't hold your breath
until
2016 + 5 years work + 5 years standard delay for an actual service.

Has it even been approved yet (genuine question).

As I have posted before,

I started my career working at Feltham and there was a proposal then for
(what is most recently called) "Heathrow Airtrack " to connect to (what I
will call, for the benefit of our obviously American friend) London South
Western lines to Reading/ Woking and beyond, which would be built within
5
years.

I am now with 5 years of retirement, and it is still nothing more than a
proposal and even further away than 5 years from ever being built

Extending the track to T4 further beyond would seem to take it to Feltham;
it looks like a natural route on the map.

Bloody good job I didn't stay living in Feltham on this basis of this
"promised" new service.

What's wrong with living in Feltham without this new service?

It's a ****-hole

tim

On 25/05/2017 09:40, d wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2017 17:06:22 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 24/05/2017 09:29, d wrote:
Why? You see a friends brother happens to be an ATC at city airport which is
why I already knew about that plan to lay them off, sorry , "transfer". And
guess what? They use the angled windows to look out and keeps tabs on what is
going on right beneath them when appropriate. So all you so called aviation
experts can shoev your google answers where the angled windows don't reach.



Another of your famous "friends"?

Huh? He's not a friend, he's a brother of a friend.

My sister is an ATC and she reckons the windows are angled to stop
reflections.

"Reckons"? Anyway, there doesn't have to be just one purpose. Perhaps the
reflections was the initial reason and a side effect was it led to better
visuals. Or vice verca.


It leads to better visibility because there are no reflections.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 25/05/2017 09:40, d wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2017 17:06:22 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 24/05/2017 09:29, d wrote:
Why? You see a friends brother happens to be an ATC at city airport which is
why I already knew about that plan to lay them off, sorry , "transfer". And
guess what? They use the angled windows to look out and keeps tabs on what is
going on right beneath them when appropriate. So all you so called aviation
experts can shoev your google answers where the angled windows don't reach.



Another of your famous "friends"?

Huh? He's not a friend, he's a brother of a friend.

My sister is an ATC and she reckons the windows are angled to stop
reflections.

"Reckons"? Anyway, there doesn't have to be just one purpose. Perhaps the
reflections was the initial reason and a side effect was it led to better
visuals. Or vice verca.


It leads to better visibility because there are no reflections.

That's clearly (ha ha) the number one reason. The second reason is to
reduce the number of rain drops on the windows. As a by-product, it may
also help downward visibility, but only with control towers that allow
close access to the windows (many have desks and screens in the way). If
they really need a direct view down (irrelevant with most control towers),
a downward pointing camera will be much more useful, providing better
vision without leaving the desk.

On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 9:26:07 PM UTC+5:30, Recliner wrote:
Ding Bat wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 6:56:58 PM UTC+5:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:37:18 on
Tue, 23 May 2017, Recliner remarked:
"Lots of people fly into Heathrow wanting to visit ExCel? Really??"
During major exhibitions - yes - absolutely. For example, World Travel
Mart (held at Excel) is a "must attend" event in the travel business -
there are loads of people who fly in specifically to attend it. City
airport is much handier for Excel, but there are loads of places
(especially long haul) which don't have flights into City.

I'm aware of that show, and even have friends in that business (from
overseas) who exhibit. They fly in and out of Luton, incidentally.

It is, however, a tiny number of people compared to the million a day
who are predicted to use Crossrail, or the 80,000 a day who use
Heathrow.

Like other shows at Excel, it attracts about 15-20,000 a day, of whom
3,000 a day are actual travel buyers.

Out of that lot if more than 1,000 each of the three days have flown in
through Heathrow, rather than being based in the UK or using other
airports, E* etc to arrive from abroad, I'll eat my hat.

Of course, 1,000 top quality buyers is plenty if you have a selling
booth at WTM, but it's not a number to build a railway timetable around.

No, but we were discussing the attractions of Crossrail vs HEx. Any of
those visitors who currently use Heathrow and HEx will certainly
switch to Crossrail. And some who previously flew to Luton may switch
to LHR and Crossrail, too. Or they can change at Farringdon to
Crossrail.

It's just one example of the many flows that will use Crossrail rather
than HEx.

Yes, lots of "only quite a few" passengers.
--
Roland Perry

Does HEx have to continue to terminate at Paddington? Can't it go nonstop
to Paddington and then continue to Abbey Wood with the same stops as what
will replace Heathrow Connect?

Even if that were possible, how could it attract a premium fare in such a
case? And how could such a premium fare be enforced?

There would be more passengers available to pay a premium, to offset the loss of passengers to the non-express Crossrail. Think Liverpool St to Heathrow with its being express after Paddington. Some proportion of passengers would choose to pay the premium for the time saving and if the express is less full, they'd also be paying the premium for comfort (not having to stand) if the premium keeps passenger count low enough for all, or all in Heathrow designated carriages, to get seats. Remember that standing would be more of a drag for those who have luggage.

"Ding Bat" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 9:26:07 PM UTC+5:30, Recliner wrote:
Ding Bat wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 6:56:58 PM UTC+5:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:37:18
on
Tue, 23 May 2017, Recliner remarked:
"Lots of people fly into Heathrow wanting to visit ExCel? Really??"
During major exhibitions - yes - absolutely. For example, World
Travel
Mart (held at Excel) is a "must attend" event in the travel
business -
there are loads of people who fly in specifically to attend it.
City
airport is much handier for Excel, but there are loads of places
(especially long haul) which don't have flights into City.

I'm aware of that show, and even have friends in that business (from
overseas) who exhibit. They fly in and out of Luton, incidentally.

It is, however, a tiny number of people compared to the million a
day
who are predicted to use Crossrail, or the 80,000 a day who use
Heathrow.

Like other shows at Excel, it attracts about 15-20,000 a day, of
whom
3,000 a day are actual travel buyers.

Out of that lot if more than 1,000 each of the three days have flown
in
through Heathrow, rather than being based in the UK or using other
airports, E* etc to arrive from abroad, I'll eat my hat.

Of course, 1,000 top quality buyers is plenty if you have a selling
booth at WTM, but it's not a number to build a railway timetable
around.

No, but we were discussing the attractions of Crossrail vs HEx. Any
of
those visitors who currently use Heathrow and HEx will certainly
switch to Crossrail. And some who previously flew to Luton may switch
to LHR and Crossrail, too. Or they can change at Farringdon to
Crossrail.

It's just one example of the many flows that will use Crossrail
rather
than HEx.

Yes, lots of "only quite a few" passengers.
--
Roland Perry

Does HEx have to continue to terminate at Paddington? Can't it go
nonstop
to Paddington and then continue to Abbey Wood with the same stops as
what
will replace Heathrow Connect?

Even if that were possible, how could it attract a premium fare in such a
case? And how could such a premium fare be enforced?

There would be more passengers available to pay a premium, to offset the
loss of passengers to the non-express Crossrail. Think Liverpool St to
Heathrow with its being express after Paddington. Some proportion of
passengers would choose to pay the premium for the time saving and if the
express is less full, they'd also be paying the premium for comfort (not
having to stand) if the premium keeps passenger count low enough for all,
or all in Heathrow designated carriages, to get seats. Remember that
standing would be more of a drag for those who have luggage.

As the trains are going to look like any other train from LSt to Padd with
all the normal use by passengers travelling to/from intermediate points,
they will likely be full at every stop (You've obviously never been on the
Underground)

And even if there are motivations to get on at LSt and pay extra for a
slightly quicker journey for the part from Padd to LHR, how are you going to
enforce that fare?

It can't be done at barriers - and trains are likely to be too full to send
a griper around in the time available.

In message , at
01:49:07 on Fri, 26 May 2017, Ding Bat
remarked:
Does HEx have to continue to terminate at Paddington? Can't it go nonstop
to Paddington and then continue to Abbey Wood with the same stops as what
will replace Heathrow Connect?

Even if that were possible, how could it attract a premium fare in such a
case? And how could such a premium fare be enforced?

There would be more passengers available to pay a premium, to offset the loss of passengers to the non-express Crossrail. Think Liverpool St to
Heathrow with its being express after Paddington. Some proportion of passengers would choose to pay the premium for the time saving and if the
express is less full, they'd also be paying the premium for comfort (not having to stand) if the premium keeps passenger count low enough for
all, or all in Heathrow designated carriages, to get seats. Remember that standing would be more of a drag for those who have luggage.

I'm afraid I don't have the same access as you to transport forecasts
which would apply to the various future developments which you have in
mind. So I can't comment.
--
Roland Perry