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Old November 23rd 19, 09:28 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:58:07 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.


In the General Election, voters won't be looking over their shoulder at
the past, but hoping for a sustained brighter future.


Was that not always so?


One of the aspects of this campaign which I think might be different
from previous ones, however, is the way manifesto promises are not just
looked at from the point of view of being deliverable, but whether or
not they are deliverable within 5yrs.


I don't see why this election is any different to previous elections in
that regard.


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Old November 23rd 19, 12:34 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the

lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number

of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and


they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over


It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves
having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked
vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3
days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for
braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for
for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops.
The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules
that haven't changed since the victorian era.

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Old November 23rd 19, 03:32 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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In message , at 09:28:26 on Sat, 23 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:58:07 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?

The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.


In the General Election, voters won't be looking over their shoulder at
the past, but hoping for a sustained brighter future.


Was that not always so?


Who disputed that?

One of the aspects of this campaign which I think might be different
from previous ones, however, is the way manifesto promises are not just
looked at from the point of view of being deliverable, but whether or
not they are deliverable within 5yrs.


I don't see why this election is any different to previous elections in
that regard.


Partly because there are many really long term projects being promised,
some of which quite naturally won't be showing much progress at all
after 5yrs. But also because of the way social media can stir up such
questions in the minds of the electorate.
--
Roland Perry


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Old November 23rd 19, 04:59 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49,
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36,
wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of

tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think


we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.


Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC only
700.


Class 707s, like all other stock introduced recently, has DOO cameras and
screens in the cab but as SWR don't use them they're probably not tested,
assessed and properly commissioned, and the drivers won't be DOO trained
anyway.

SWR’s older stock, 455-458, will have guard's door control equipment at
various locations including cabs, or the corridor behind the cab, and on
some stock at intermediate doors too. Drivers won't be trained on dispatch
etc, and the risk assessment of every platform and the high-risk areas of
each platform won't have been done with dispatch from the front cab in
mind. SWR's platforms presumably don't have the platform equipment required
for DOO with older stock like this, so if the safe dispatch procedure for a
certain platform involves dispatch from the middle of the train, you want
the driver to walk back to the middle, shut the doors and then walk back to
the front of the train? Hmmm...


Anna Noyd-Dryver

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Old November 23rd 19, 05:05 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52,
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49,
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36,
wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for


a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I

think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it

was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to

believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC

only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?


So you admit it is fitted to the trains then?



Full DOO equipment is fitted to one [1] of SWR's 7 types of stock.

[1] 442s were retrofitted with non-compliant DOO equipment for Southern, I
don't know whether it's been removed during the SWR refurb but I imagine
so.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
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Old November 23rd 19, 05:16 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 16:59:14 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49,
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36,
wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for


a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I

think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.


Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it

was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to

believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC

only
700.


Class 707s, like all other stock introduced recently, has DOO cameras and
screens in the cab but as SWR don't use them they're probably not tested,
assessed and properly commissioned, and the drivers won't be DOO trained
anyway.


So in all that intensive 12-18 months of training for this highly skilled lever
pushing job, they don't get shown how to open and close the doors? Pull the
other one.

certain platform involves dispatch from the middle of the train, you want
the driver to walk back to the middle, shut the doors and then walk back to
the front of the train? Hmmm...


Better than no service at all. But then we both know those unionised clowns
wouldn't cross the picket line anyway so the point is moot.

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Old November 23rd 19, 05:16 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:05:27 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52,
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49,
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36,
wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike

for

a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of


tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I
think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it
was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to
believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC
only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?


So you admit it is fitted to the trains then?



Full DOO equipment is fitted to one [1] of SWR's 7 types of stock.


So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service.



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