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Old November 23rd 19, 05:20 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On 23/11/2019 16:56, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 12:29,
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52,
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49,
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36,
wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for


a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I

think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it

was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to

believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC

only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?


So you admit it is fitted to the trains then?


It's not just a matter of where the door controls are.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.


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Old November 23rd 19, 05:22 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On 23/11/2019 17:05, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52,
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49,
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36,
wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for

a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I
think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it
was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to
believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC
only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?


So you admit it is fitted to the trains then?



Full DOO equipment is fitted to one [1] of SWR's 7 types of stock.

[1] 442s were retrofitted with non-compliant DOO equipment for Southern, I
don't know whether it's been removed during the SWR refurb but I imagine
so.


Talking of which, are the 442s ever going to reenter service?



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

  #43   Report Post  
Old November 23rd 19, 05:50 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:05:27 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52,
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49,
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36,
wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike

for

a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of


tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I
think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it
was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to
believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC
only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?

So you admit it is fitted to the trains then?



Full DOO equipment is fitted to one [1] of SWR's 7 types of stock.


So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service.



30 units out of a fleet of 400 to cover the entirety of SWR *ROTFL*

Are they even cleared for routes other than the ones they currently operate
on? (No I can't be bothered to wade through
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/information-for-operators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/
to find out)


Anna Noyd-Dryver

  #44   Report Post  
Old November 23rd 19, 06:36 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:50:07 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service.



30 units out of a fleet of 400 to cover the entirety of SWR *ROTFL*


So no trains at all is a better option is it? I suspect a lot of the
commuters might disagree.

Are they even cleared for routes other than the ones they currently operate
on? (No I can't be bothered to wade through


Who cares? They can operate on the routes they ARE cleared for. Whats the
problem?

  #45   Report Post  
Old November 23rd 19, 10:30 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the

lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number

of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and


they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over


It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves
having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked
vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3
days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for
braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for
for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops.
The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules
that haven't changed since the victorian era.

No, it took you 4 days to learn how to steer a bus. It takes much
longer than that to learn how to drive any road vehicle due to the
different circumstances that can be experienced. Some people never
learn.


  #46   Report Post  
Old November 23rd 19, 10:31 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:50:07 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service.



30 units out of a fleet of 400 to cover the entirety of SWR *ROTFL*


So no trains at all is a better option is it? I suspect a lot of the
commuters might disagree.


Perhaps you can tell us how your detailed, well-thought-out plan is
superior to what SWR is planning?
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action


  #47   Report Post  
Old November 23rd 19, 10:34 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?



The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

† Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.



That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they
decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by
Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of
splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else.
  #48   Report Post  
Old November 23rd 19, 10:41 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

† Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

Â…


That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they
decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by
Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of
splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else.


I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election.

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Old November 23rd 19, 10:52 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36,
wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.


Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think
we know the answer to that.



SWR can't do DOO. They say they're planning to run 50% of services,
presumably using management/office staff as guards.

As for crossing or not crossing picket lines, I believe it's technically
secondary industrial action and therefore technically illegal,

Only if they have been encouraged by their union. AFAIR the individual
members making individual decisions are a very different legal matter.
It is further complicated by the later introduction of the Human
Rights Act.

but also
AIUI most TOCs involved in similar disputes have said they won't take
action (beyond loss of a day's pay) against those of other grades who don't
cross picket lines.

Incidentally AIUI the RMT will be paying the striking guards to compensate
for loss of income; that won't of course apply to other grades.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

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Old November 23rd 19, 11:13 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that
involves
having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around
parked
vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2
or 3
days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for
braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more
weeks for
for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month
tops.


What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to
driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car?

The largest vehicle I've driven was a long wheelbase Mercedes Sprinter van
(from a van hire place when we were moving house), having only driven a car
until then. Reversing it onto our drive was nerve-wracking, even with the
aid of a reversing camera: I'm so used to having the view through the rear
window via a rear-view mirror, in addition to the door mirrors. Remembering
to drive slightly beyond a right-angle turn before starting to steer, so as
to avoid clipping the kerb with the back wheels, was something I *usually*
did right but occasionally misjudged.

By the third day it held no terrors for me, and I even managed to parallel
park it (obviously in a longer slot than for my car!) on the first go -
thank goodness for the passenger door mirror, angled downwards, to see when
the rear wheel is about to touch the kerb, so as to determine when to start
steering hard right to tuck the front end in.

Driving an ordinary car felt very weird afterwards - the steering wheel felt
so high up, when I'd got used to the elbows-resting-on-my-knees position for
steering the van.



But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still
and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then
I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5.



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