"David Splett" wrote in message
...

It might be a downright refusal on your part, but it's not a very clever
one.

I'm not claiming it *is* clever. It's just my daft little protest against
people using our roads who don't pay for them! ;-)

When I'm cycling and I encounter cars that haven't stopped in the
correct place, I simply pass over the ASL and stop in front of them.

ASL?

Why not just learn to drive your vehicle correctly, or do you get some
kind
of flagilatory thrill from being tense and stressed?

I do drive my vehicle correctly. And I'm not tense, or stressed, or prone to
flagellatory flights of fancy. I just hate cyclists and the way they
(present company excepted) reckon they own the road - riding on the
pavement, jumping red lights, yelling abuse at elderly people and so on.

Ian

Ian F. wrote:

And I'm not [...] prone to
flagellatory flights of fancy.

That's not what I've heard! :-)

"Dave Newt" newtonline{at}gmail.com wrote in message
t.net...

That's not what I've heard! :-)

Relurk, Newtie - or else! ;-)

Ian

Ian F. wrote:
I just hate cyclists and the way they
(present company excepted) reckon they own the road - riding on the
pavement, jumping red lights, yelling abuse at elderly people and so on.

This chap *has* to be posting from utl. I've read that POB's[1] tend to
do that sort of thing a lot in London.

[1] People On Bikes, as opposed to Real Cyclists.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

"Danny Colyer" wrote in message
...

This chap *has* to be posting from utl.

Well, I'm hardly going to be posting from urc, now, am I? :-)

I've read that POB's[1] tend to
do that sort of thing a lot in London.

[1] People On Bikes, as opposed to Real Cyclists.

If you tell me there's a difference, I'll believe you!

Ian

I wrote:
I've read that POB's[1] tend to
do that sort of thing a lot in London.

[1] People On Bikes, as opposed to Real Cyclists.

and Ian F. responded:
If you tell me there's a difference, I'll believe you!

There certainly is. We Real Cyclists tend to really, really dislike
POB's, mostly because we all get tarred with the same brush. But also
because they endanger us directly.

A while ago, a regular on urc was injured when a POB rode off a pavement
into him without looking. I have had to slam the brakes on on occasion
to avoid POB's doing the same thing.

In The Great Helmet Debate, those who would like to remove our freedom
to choose whether to wear a lid (in spite of all the evidence that
removal of such freedom would be a bad thing) have taken to citing the
case of a young POB who was killed after riding a bike with faulty
brakes off the pavement and into the path of a car. As if wearing a
PFDB[1] would have been more effective at saving his life than adequate
cycle training and maintenance.

There have been other stories of Real Cyclists being hit by POB's
sailing through red lights.

POB's tend to be relatively slow cyclists (except for those couriers
that I've read about). So a POB will sail past a Real Cyclist at a red
light, then get in the way when the Real Cyclist catches up after the
lights change. Repeatedly, when there are as many traffic lights as in
London.

I could go on (I had other things in mind to mention when I started
typing this), but I'm bored now so I'll stop.

[1] Polystyrene Foam Deflector Beanie. It's OK to wear a helmet, as
long as you remember that it's made of meringue covered in eggshell and
ride accordingly.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

"Danny Colyer" wrote in message
...

There certainly is. We Real Cyclists tend to really, really dislike
POB's, mostly because we all get tarred with the same brush. But also
because they endanger us directly.

snip interesting stuff

Just proves you're never too old to learn. I shall now take great pleasure
in watching out for Real Cyclists as opposed to POBs!

Isn't there anything you cyclists can do, as a group, to stop these idiots
cycling on pavements, running red lights and so on? Isn't there a pressure
organisation or something? How can we (pedestrians) help?

Ian

Ian F. wrote:
Isn't there anything you cyclists can do, as a group, to stop these idiots
cycling on pavements, running red lights and so on? Isn't there a pressure
organisation or something? How can we (pedestrians) help?

If only! It needs an effective public education campaign to encourage
new/returning cyclists to take training courses, ready availability of
such courses (they *are* available, if you know where to look) and ready
availability of Cycling Proficiency courses at all primary and secondary
schools.

It's starting to happen. Standard training courses have been developed
by CTC, among others, and seem to be effective (hopefully JohnB will be
along any minute to tell you all about them). But I'm sure it'll be
years before we notice any significant improvement.

Other than that, we could always adapt Spike Bike's techniques and
direct them towards the POB's :-)
URL:http://members.aol.com/clubnbc/spike_1.htm

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

"Ian F." typed


Isn't there anything you cyclists can do, as a group, to stop these idiots
cycling on pavements, running red lights and so on? Isn't there a pressure
organisation or something? How can we (pedestrians) help?

It's really *very* difficult.

Camden Cycling Campaign is trying to help the Council with some catchy
slogans to deter pavement cycling but we *aren't* responsible for other
POBs.

CCC members attended a meeting of campaigning pedestrians at Camden Town
Hall about three weeks ago. It was then reported in local papers that
'the enemy' had 'gatecrashed' the meeting. Co-operating with some groups
of pedestrians isn't always easy!

Enforcement of traffic law is the responsibility of the Police etc.

POBs give all cyclists a bad name and make campaigning for measures to
improve the lot of cyclists far more difficult.

The roads in Outer London are packed with drivers who are really hostile
to cyclists and frequently tell them to get onto the pavement. The local
Press can be very hostile too.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

"Ian F." writes:
Isn't there anything you cyclists can do, as a group, to stop these idiots
cycling on pavements, running red lights and so on?

Shoot them and burn the bodies?

Isn't there a pressure organisation or something? How can we
(pedestrians) help?

I occasionally comment when I judge I'm not likely to get punched in
the face for doing so, but I can see little else. Many cyclists tend
to write in in support of enforcement initiatives when reported in the
press, as well.

That reminds me, there's a sad letter in the Metro I should respond
to. (Someone hit and injured by a pavement cyclist who doesn't know
they _can_ get compensation).

A