Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

ONscotland wrote:

I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes
far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route.


It's an old plan which gets revived every few years; Metronet have it
in their sights now.

(snip)

Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith &
City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you
expand on that at all?

I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services
run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware
Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and
King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms,
whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , at 21:38:24 on Sun, 29 May
2005, Dave Arquati remarked:
Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith &
City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you
expand on that at all?

I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if
services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road
- Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker
Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C
platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle
platforms.

Why is that? Are they proposing that the trains don't stop at
Paddington-Circle on the Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd leg?
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:38:24 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

ONscotland wrote:

I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes
far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route.


It's an old plan which gets revived every few years; Metronet have it
in their sights now.

(snip)

Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith &
City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you
expand on that at all?

I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services
run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware
Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and
King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms,
whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms.

Nobody's asked the most important question - what's this going to do
to the look of the map?! :-)

Charlie

--
Remove NO-SPOO-PLEASE from my email address to reply
Please send no unsolicited email or foodstuffs

In article , Roland
Perry writes
I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if
services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road
- Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker
Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C
platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and
Circle platforms.

Why is that? Are they proposing that the trains don't stop at
Paddington-Circle on the Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd leg?

No, but if people get to know that the trains on the H&C platform always
go straight to KX while those on the Circle platform *never* do, which
are they going to use?

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:38:24 on Sun, 29 May
2005, Dave Arquati remarked:

Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith &
City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you
expand on that at all?


I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if
services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road
- Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker
Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C
platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and
Circle platforms.


Why is that? Are they proposing that the trains don't stop at
Paddington-Circle on the Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd leg?

No - if trains run the pattern I described, then trains calling at
Paddington (Circle) eastbound will only ever be running as far as
Edgware Road, so nearly every passenger heading east will have to use
the current H&C eastbound platform instead.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

ONscotland wrote:

I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes
far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route.

Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District
Line will still have services), but without a circular service
operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically
cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised.

Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan
that is being considered?

No knowledge on the scheme, but the proposals on other threads to dig up the
Aldgate stations and produce an integrated interchange could help such a
plan no end! In my humble opinion the lines don't really work properly - far
too travellers are left with no idea when the through service they need is
coming, with the result that Liverpool Street fills up with everyone trying
to get as far as possible and many having to make sprints between Aldgate or
running around at Tower Hill in the hope of making an interchange, if they
can get that far (the number of times it seems that only the Met is running
astounds me). Even an upgrade of the platform indicators so that they can
always show the next train for each destination combination would be an
improvement (although the patisserie on the Aldgates-bound platform at
Liverpool Street may not see it that way!)

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
ONscotland wrote:


I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes
far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route.


Naturally, the lines will still be there (ie: H&C, Met and District
Line will still have services), but without a circular service
operating. The nickname "tea-cup" was mentioned, as this will basically
cover the stylised map of new routes that will be utilised.


Does anyone have any other details on this: or is it just another plan
that is being considered?


No knowledge on the scheme, but the proposals on other threads to dig up the
Aldgate stations and produce an integrated interchange could help such a
plan no end! In my humble opinion the lines don't really work properly - far
too travellers are left with no idea when the through service they need is
coming, with the result that Liverpool Street fills up with everyone trying
to get as far as possible and many having to make sprints between Aldgate or
running around at Tower Hill in the hope of making an interchange, if they
can get that far (the number of times it seems that only the Met is running
astounds me). Even an upgrade of the platform indicators so that they can
always show the next train for each destination combination would be an
improvement (although the patisserie on the Aldgates-bound platform at
Liverpool Street may not see it that way!)

Well, hopefully any changes made to the way the subsurface network
operates would improve reliability and thus reduce the "getting as far
as you can" problem that happens at the moment.

The problem is that although the proposed change is meant to improve
reliability on the Circle and increase the service to Hammersmith, it
requires that Met trains are diverted from Aldgate to Whitechapel or
Barking to replace the lost H&C service from Liverpool Street eastwards.
Not only does that mean that Met City services are required to
traverse an extra flat junction at Aldgate East, the longer route will
be more susceptible to delay.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , at 10:51:40 on Mon, 30
May 2005, Clive D. W. Feather remarked:
I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if
services run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester
Road - Edgware Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards
Baker Street and King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the
current H&C platforms, whereas at the moment they divide between the
H&C and Circle platforms.

Why is that? Are they proposing that the trains don't stop at
Paddington-Circle on the Gloucester Rd to Edgware Rd leg?

No, but if people get to know that the trains on the H&C platform
always go straight to KX while those on the Circle platform *never* do,
which are they going to use?

Ah, so these trains terminate at Edgware Road do they? Is there the
capacity to do that, as well as terminating the Wimbleware ones?
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 29 May 2005, knapp gate wrote:

sorry - to be precise it's from the junction where the tiles from
Paddington Circle and the one from Paddington suburban join together;

Tiles?

tom

--
I think it would be a good idea -- Mohandas Gandhi, on Western civilisation

On Sun, 29 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith & City line
station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you expand on that
at all?

I don't have anything else on it, but I presume it's because if services
run Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Tower Hill - Gloucester Road - Edgware
Road, then *everyone* heading from Paddington towards Baker Street and
King's Cross (and vice versa) will be using the current H&C platforms,
whereas at the moment they divide between the H&C and Circle platforms.

Makes sense; i was wondering what changes might be made. I guess that
whole bridge/ticket barrier thing could be improved quite a bit.

I've just realised that this plan would have the side effect of making
catching a tube east at Paddington a lot less frustrating, since there
would be zero through trains from the circle platform, as opposed to
almost zero!

While we're on the H&C station at Paddington, i noticed the other day that
there are two mainline platforms on the fare-paid side of the barriers;
what are those all about? Are they used for suburban services?

tom

--
I think it would be a good idea -- Mohandas Gandhi, on Western civilisation