Roland Perry wrote:

I agree that the ticket machines are unfriendly in terms of payment
method. But they *do* have instructions in English to get a ticket to
Centraal/Schiphol - that's a lot better than most systems; does a LUL
ticket machine at Heathrow have instructions in Dutch??

No, but there are a lot more people flying into Schiphol who don't
speak Dutch than are flying into Heathrow and don't speak English.
However, I agree that the UK is poor in its provision for foreign
languages and should improve it (except for some odd reason mid-1980s
BR - most stickers on the Sprinters are in English, French, German and
some sort of Chinese/Japanese).

Notices about the penalty fare (EUR35) are entirely absent - at least
English ones are, I can't read the Dutch signs.

When I was last there I saw none in Dutch either (I can read it
acceptably from knowledge of German and French).

Neil

Wow thanks Rian, I'll remember that next time.

Paul Ebbens
(part-Nederlander, part-Brit)

"There are probably so few Dutch people who don't speak perfect English

that's its not worth bothering with :-) "

Well that is true the majority of Dutch/Flemish also know English well,
however... I have encountered people that do not understand some of the
finer 'qualities' of UK railways, so I have always learnt some people
at Harwich on what to do about where they're going and such as
sometimes... "change trains" / "overstappen" gets lost in the
translation, especially when originally they were told otherwise...
I wouldnt mind doing that for my life... helping the bewildered with my
dutch (simple as it may be, so far I can recall approximately 100
people (mostly in groups) over 4 years I've helped find where they want
to go... so its not bad for this unpaid 'helping hand'

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message .com, at
09:32:13 on Mon, 22 May 2006, Neil Williams remarked:
I dunno, but from conversations overheard on the train I get the
impression that a lot of tourists dodge the Schiphol-Centraal fare;
either because the machines defeat them, or they "genuinely" think they
can buy a ticket on the train.

There aren't obvious notices stating that you can't on display, and
it's accepted UK practice that unless there is a barrier check or
penalty fare scheme (the latter being well-publicised in most cases)
that it is acceptable to pay on the train so long as you want a
full-fare single, just as it is in Germany (with a surcharge).

There's always the ticket office at Schiphol (though there is a small
surcharge).

All this suggests to me that while NS is operationally very efficient,
it is highly customer-unfriendly.

I agree that the ticket machines are unfriendly in terms of payment
method. But they *do* have instructions in English to get a ticket to
Centraal/Schiphol - that's a lot better than most systems; does a LUL
ticket machine at Heathrow have instructions in Dutch??

While I don't think they can manage Dutch, the touchscreen ticket machines
at most LU stations do have a choice of half a dozen or so different
languages.

Peter Smyth

In message , at 00:01:40 on Tue,
23 May 2006, Peter Smyth remarked:
While I don't think they can manage Dutch, the touchscreen ticket machines
at most LU stations do have a choice of half a dozen or so different
languages.

I hadn't noticed that. Will give it a try next time I'm in London.
--
Roland Perry

allan tracy wrote:

It's because there is quite a lot of consumer resistance to credit
cards especially in Germany where it's a cultural thing to not like
them.

Looking at German banks' websites, I don't think I'd have one over
there. The charges (including annual charges, which are now pretty
much unknown over here) are extortionate, and the interest rates poor.

Over here, of course, we eat them.

Indeed. They can be very useful for such things as interest-free loans
(on 0% cards) and consumer protection. I use mine extensively, but
apart from 400 quid on a 0% card which I'm planning to have paid off
before the 0% period ends I always pay at the end of the month, and
thus never incur interest charges.

They are also useful for delaying payment while an expense claim is
paid, and for spending abroad (with the noted exceptions).

Neil

Rian van der Borgt wrote:

There's been a new policy regarding selling tickets on the train since
October last year: no tickets are sold on the train, under any
circumstances.

Are there any stations which have only the new ticket machines, and
thus no means of payment in cash? If so that is a decidedly dubious
policy.

Neil

Paul Corfield wrote:

I'm sure there is but try finding it. Rail Europe's site is singularly
unhelpful - it quoted me a fare of almost £500 for a First Class return
to Amsterdam as apparently only business fares are available. I know
this to be incorrect but there are no options for a first class leisure
fare.

Try booking it in 2 bits, the E* via their site and Thalys via theirs
(or DB). You can always check availability first.

The other issue is that you can get to Brussels but Thalys is often full
and it is impossible (IME) to get a ticket covering the slower service
to Amsterdam via Eurostar's site.

Buy that on the day at Midi if you need to. Reservations are not
required, and IMX, except in the height of summer, they're not even
helpful - the Benelux-Treinen are pretty long, traditional LHCS trains.
As with the Oostende-Koeln D-Zug (though the ICE is still there and is
a good choice, as is the local service), it'll be a sad day when these
are Thalys-ed when the HSL Zuid opens.

I'd much rather do the journey by train but the whole system is so
unfriendly that I won't put myself through the needless complexity. The
only people who lose are Eurostar, Dutch Railways and the tourist
industry in Holland - I'll go on holiday somewhere else.

I do agree with that.

Neil

On Mon, 22 May 2006 21:07:48 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote in :
In message , at 19:37:03 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, Dr Ivan D. Reid remarked:
I had cause to use Geneva's Route 28 fron Hôpital de la Tour to
L'Aéroport twice recently, and was amazed to find the buses equipped with
a ticket machine onboard.

Are those the bendy trolley buses? Almost as good as trams.

No, the 28 is a diesel bus service. The 10 is the only trolley bus
I've noted in my travels between Aéroport and CERN -- but then again I only
made my first foray into the centre of Geneva last Friday night, after
four years of working at CERN! (CHF142 for 10l of beer, I'll probably
leave it another 4 years before I go again...)

--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. ] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

On 23 May 2006 02:24:15 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

I'm sure there is but try finding it. Rail Europe's site is singularly
unhelpful - it quoted me a fare of almost £500 for a First Class return
to Amsterdam as apparently only business fares are available. I know
this to be incorrect but there are no options for a first class leisure
fare.

Try booking it in 2 bits, the E* via their site and Thalys via theirs
(or DB). You can always check availability first.

Well yes - the question still remains as to why I should go through all
this nonsense. There either is a through ticket or there is not. Bring
back BR International at Victoria. The service might have been slow but
at least it worked and the people behind the desk knew what they were
selling.

The other issue is that you can get to Brussels but Thalys is often full
and it is impossible (IME) to get a ticket covering the slower service
to Amsterdam via Eurostar's site.

Buy that on the day at Midi if you need to. Reservations are not
required, and IMX, except in the height of summer, they're not even
helpful - the Benelux-Treinen are pretty long, traditional LHCS trains.

Do you mean half full? I have used these a number of years ago and would
agree that it's a decent if somewhat slow service.

As with the Oostende-Koeln D-Zug (though the ICE is still there and is
a good choice, as is the local service), it'll be a sad day when these
are Thalys-ed when the HSL Zuid opens.

If HSL Zuid ever opens. It is extremely depressing reading about the
mess that Dutch Railways and railway policy in the Netherlands seems to
have become. They seem to be hell bent on copying the absolute worst
aspects of UK policy and project delivery. The Dutch government are
also being "done over" by the private sector when it comes to the
operational concepts for HSL Zuid and also the Betuwe freight line.

I'd much rather do the journey by train but the whole system is so
unfriendly that I won't put myself through the needless complexity. The
only people who lose are Eurostar, Dutch Railways and the tourist
industry in Holland - I'll go on holiday somewhere else.

I do agree with that.

And what a shame given that it's a great country with good, friendly
people (IME).
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!