On 26 Jan, 09:54, Allan wrote:
John Salmon wrote:
Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet...

Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the
Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more
or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever,
at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next
Sunday, 1st February.

I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. *It was so easy to
get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the
underground.

... though you haven't been able to do that in the morning peak (7am to
10am Mon-Fri) for many months now, since the entrance/exit in question
is closed during those hours.


Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of
the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the
station, and then down the stairs.


Yes, I have had to do that every mornng for ages. Worse, the entrance
in front of the station is always "throttled" during the morning peak
(by partially closing the sliding gates) to allow only one person in
at a time, leading to a big melee of people outside trying to get in.

I often find it easier to cross St Pancras Road and use the entrance
inder St Pancras, which is normally unrestricted.

PaulO

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

Regarding the current arrangement - once the entrance to the Tube
station in the middle of the current concourse shuts, there won't as
you say be a completely covered route - but it's almost completely
covered. Look at this bird's eye view - the building with the 'King's
Cross' label imposed on it is actually the (fairly) new wide stairway
entrance down into the Tube station. The actual distance between that
and the existing canopy is pretty miniscule (the temporary structure
that appears in between them is no longer there).

It's not covered though, as I've found out most recently when trying to
get a family with luggage from Cambridge to Heathrow before Christmas.
With a granddaughter in a buggy we had to use the lift there. Not covering
the back is just a pathetic bit of meanness, frankly.

Regarding the arrangement encouraging you to use your bike - well,
some might well say good, nothing wrong with that, in fact it should
be positively encouraged - for a start people opting to go by bike
take some pressure off the Tube network. Though you should perhaps
note that the small lack of cover from the sky between the mainline
station and the Tube entrance somewhat pales into insignificance
compared with the lack of cover provided when cycling, what with it
being out in the open and all that.

Indeed, but access from the platforms by bike will be much worse after
they've put a barrier line in for platforms 1-8.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 26 Jan, 13:31, Roland Perry wrote:
And is there an exit-only gateline somewhere? Very close to the edge of
the building, perhaps (so that the corridor along the buffers is
"airside")?

The entire front wall of the station. The whole main shed is airside.
The whole design does seem to be based on the majority of passengers
being sent outdoors as soon as they arrive, which is bonkers.

There's just one set on the diagram I have, and it's not clear if inside
or outside the building. If it's just outside, is it perhaps inside the
greenhouse structure visible here just left of the 'clocktower':

Yes. You can see in that picture there's a brick veranda in front of
the main front wall, which will be outside the gateline but inside
glass doors, so there might be a narrow indoor route to the stairs to
the tube station.

U

On 26 Jan, 12:53, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 26 Jan, 12:42, Mizter T wrote:

There seems to be some dispute over whether passenger will be able to
exit the mainline platforms over the footbridge into the western
ticket hall or not.

They'll have a single down-only escalator and a lift to each platform.

The other possibility is that there will be a way to walk around the
southern (buffer-end) exits from platforms 1-8 within the station
(i.e. under cover) to get round to the western concourse and hence the
entrance to the Tube station.

There'll be a bi-directional gateline roughly where M&S currently is
giving you access to the concourse. A little further south (just
outside the building but under the canopy) there'll be a new set of
stairs down to the tube station. This is probably the same set Roland
mentioned earlier.


I've just been having a quick dig around the LB Camden online planning
portal. The main planning application number for these works seems to
be 2006/3387/P - the summary page can be seen he
http://tinyurl.com/dk7lyq.

The supporting documents page holds a number of drawings:
http://tinyurl.com/cth9rq

Within the "Amended drawings" document, on page 1 is a drawing that
shows two gatelines leading from the main trainshed - one leads into
the western concourse, the other leads south out onto the street - the
stairs down into the main (circular) Tube ticket hall that I think are
the ones we're all speaking about are also shown underneath an
external canopy (or at least I think that's what the drawing shows).
Page 6 also shows this in more detail.

I haven't entirely figured it out yet, like what route will passengers
exiting the Tube take into the Western concourse... ok, so now I'm
looking at page 4 of the "Proposed 3" drawings which appears to show a
direct exit from the Tube station into the western concourse, right on
the westernmost side. And this appears again on pages 8 and 10 - but
it looks solely like a link to the deep-level tubes, so I think this
is in fact the new northern Tube ticket hall. I'd need to spend a bit
of time with these drawings to properly figure it all out.

Page 1 of the "Proposed 2 - Part 2" drawings shows the 'green oval' in
the Southern Square that Mr Perry speaks of elsewhere is in fact an
"LUL vent". And in one of the drawings I noticed that the location of
the disused Hotel Curve was marked, but I can't find which one it is
now.

Anyway should anyone want to look in depth at the plans there's plenty
to go from there. As I said, I've only taken a cursory look at them -
the whole project is not one that I've looked at in any real detail
beforehand.

On 26 Jan, 13:54, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 26 Jan, 13:31, Roland Perry wrote:

And is there an exit-only gateline somewhere? Very close to the edge of
the building, perhaps (so that the corridor along the buffers is
"airside")?

The entire front wall of the station. The whole main shed is airside.
The whole design does seem to be based on the majority of passengers
being sent outdoors as soon as they arrive, which is bonkers.

I'm trying to think of other stations that employ a similar
arrangement but can't. Is this whole western concourse scheme a bit
wonky then?


There's just one set on the diagram I have, and it's not clear if inside
or outside the building. If it's just outside, is it perhaps inside the
greenhouse structure visible here just left of the 'clocktower':

Yes. You can see in that picture there's a brick veranda in front of
the main front wall, which will be outside the gateline but inside
glass doors, so there might be a narrow indoor route to the stairs to
the tube station.

On 26 Jan, 13:39, Paul Oter wrote:

On 26 Jan, 09:54, Allan wrote:

John Salmon wrote:
Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet...

Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the
Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more
or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever,
at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next
Sunday, 1st February.

I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. *It was so easy to
get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the
underground.

.. though you haven't been able to do that in the morning peak (7am to
10am Mon-Fri) for many months now, since the entrance/exit in question
is closed during those hours.

I wonder why this is the case - because it's easier to handle the
crowds outside at the new entrance perhaps?


Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of
the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the
station, and then down the stairs.

Yes, I have had to do that every mornng for ages. Worse, the entrance
in front of the station is always "throttled" during the morning peak
(by partially closing the sliding gates) to allow only one person in
at a time, leading to a big melee of people outside trying to get in.

I dare say this happens with good reason, that being the crowdedness
of the ticket hall. The new northern ticket hall should abate this
somewhat.


I often find it easier to cross St Pancras Road and use the entrance
under St Pancras, which is normally unrestricted.

Where there's a will there's a way!

On 26 Jan, 13:18, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
04:42:06 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked:

The other possibility is that there will be a way to walk around the
southern (buffer-end) exits from platforms 1-8 within the station
(i.e. under cover) to get round to the western concourse and hence the
entrance to the Tube station. This is surely highly likely, as I
rather doubt that the buffer-end exits would literally deposit people
straight off the train and through the doors into the street.

They are currently widening the circulating area inside the "old
building" by moving all the buffers about half a carriage-length north,
and eventually covering the resulting footprint with a pedestrianised
area. This will give a "corridor" from the platform ends westwards to
the new National Rail ticket concourse.

OK, I see. I'll pop in to have a look at what's going on soon.


But when they did a study of the passenger flows at the revamped
station, one of the major issues was congestion at the platform-end
exits, when it was raining. This seems to assume that most passengers
would be heading across the new open air plaza, maybe to the bus stops,
or the current "outdoor" entrance to the tube - especially if heading
for the Circle Line I think.

Interesting. Did anything come of these findings, i.e. modifications
to the design?

On 26 Jan, 12:29, Mizter T wrote:

wrote:
In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

(snip)

In time the whole focus of King's Cross station is shifting from the
present concourse over to the new western concourse, which will open
in 2011/ 2012 - in this context the closure of this staircase makes
rather more sense. I'm not really all that clued up on the
redevelopment of the station, but it seems as though the new northern
Tube ticket hall will become the primary entrance to the Underground
from the mainline station.

This Network Rail webpage provides a rough outline as to the plans,
but there's not really enough detail in it:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4059.aspx

The focus shifting nonsense is a right PITA for real users because it
means considerably longer walking routes and the complete lack of a
covered route to the Underground in the meantime. Why they don't at least
put up a temporary awning on the King's Cross forecourt is beyond me but
even that route is a long way round from all the King's Cross platforms to
the Victoria Line. Just encourages me always to use my bike.

"This focus shifting nonsense" is basically the bedrock of the
redevelopment plans for King's Cross mainline station, which will
entail the concourse being relocated to the western side of the
station.

(snip)

Regarding the current arrangement - once the entrance to the Tube
station in the middle of the current concourse shuts, there won't as
you say be a completely covered route - but it's almost completely
covered. Look at this bird's eye view - the building with the 'King's
Cross' label imposed on it is actually the (fairly) new wide stairway
entrance down into the Tube station. The actual distance between that
and the existing canopy is pretty miniscule (the temporary structure
that appears in between them is no longer there).

(snip)

"This bird's eye view" being the following link that I forgot to
include, sorry:
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?cp...scene=12453916

Mr Thant wrote:

(see also the ELL, which opens "June 2010" but I would bet money will
be carrying passengers by the end of this year)

Incidentally, Network Rail are currently advertising for signallers at
New Cross Gate, presumably for the ELL.

Cheers,

Barry

In message
, at
06:11:37 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked:
The entire front wall of the station.

In between the hoops of the arches? Or slightly inside (north) of that.

The whole main shed is airside.
The whole design does seem to be based on the majority of passengers
being sent outdoors as soon as they arrive, which is bonkers.

I'm trying to think of other stations that employ a similar
arrangement but can't. Is this whole western concourse scheme a bit
wonky then?

We are looking for stations with not much between the barrier line and
the outside world. Luton Airport Parkway's a bit like that. Or slightly
more extreme: Loughborough, where the exit from the barriers is straight
into the open carpark.
--
Roland Perry