On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:44:36 +0000, dave hill
wrote:

Mr Thant wrote:
On 27 Jan, 10:01, wrote:
Currently there are few such opportunities. The only other central
access from the north is the Jubilee Line at Westminster and Waterloo,
and then at Stanmore, Wembley Park and Kilburn, but that presumes
you're headed for Westminster. The map marks step-free access from
the sub-surface lines at Kings Cross, which could be boarded from
Wembley Park

If you change to the Met at Finchley Road the whole of the SSR is
available from the Jubilee, including the lifts at Kings Cross, and
cross platform interchange to trains in the other direction.

so presumably a lift to the Northern Line also opens up
interchange at Kings Cross which means you could travel from Woodside
Park to Wimbledon, for example.

Cross platform at Euston onto the Victoria, cross platform at Oxford
Circus onto the Bakerloo. At Waterloo there's step free access via the
JLE travelator and lifts, then SWT to Wimbledon.

(I'll admit I used the journey planner to discover this. It's
surprisingly good at it)

U
speaking of which what is the url for the level platform change on the
underground.
the beeb website whittled on about this the other week but i didnt see
a link

The "step-free" Underground map (and large-print etc. maps) is on :-
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1106.aspx

In message , Charles Ellson
writes
The "step-free" Underground map (and large-print etc. maps) is on :-
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1106.aspx

That's quite useful - but actually quite complicated to use because of
all the footnotes and restrictions. But thanks for pointing it out.

What would be *really* useful would be a guide to using both national
rail and TfL services with reasonably step-free access. Here I'm
thinking not so much of those people in wheelchairs (for which
travelling is really difficult, I realise) but the rather larger numbers
of us who sometimes travel with heavy luggage, and find the effort of
dragging it up long flights of steps, or even escalators, can be pretty
unpleasant.

I haven't had time to try this myself, but for example I have plotted a
route from stations on the northern Thameslink line (such as Bedford and
Luton) to Heathrow which is feasible with luggage:

1. Take the Thameslink train to Farringdon, from where there are just a
few steps to the anti-clockwise circle line (and maybe a lift after the
current modernisation works are complete?).

2. Take Circle line to somewhere on the western section such as
High St Kensington, and switch to a southbound District line.

3. Take this to Earl's Court where one can change to a Heathrow-bound
Piccadilly line train using the lifts.

Coming back, the route involves switching at two points to end up on an
anti-clockwise circle line to Moorgate, from which one can at present
get on the level to a train to Luton/Bedford at certain times of the
day. Unfortunately this possibility will soon vanish forever. After
this things get a lot more complicated...


--
Clive Page

On 31 Jan, 12:15, Clive Page wrote:
1. Take the Thameslink train to Farringdon, from where there are just a
few steps to the anti-clockwise circle line (and maybe a lift after the
current modernisation works are complete?).

End of next year, though I'm not sure about access to the circle line.

3. Take this to Earl's Court where one can change to a Heathrow-bound
Piccadilly line train using the lifts.

Surely it's easier to do a cross platform change to a westbound
District to get the Piccadilly cross-platform at Baron's Court or
Hammersmith?

Coming back, the route involves switching at two points to end up on an
anti-clockwise circle line to Moorgate, from which one can at present
get on the level to a train to Luton/Bedford at certain times of the
day. *Unfortunately this possibility will soon vanish forever. After
this things get a lot more complicated...

Get a southbound Thameslink at Farringdon, and use the ramps at London
Bridge to get a northbound?

(alternatively, there are lifts from SSL to Thameslink at St P, if the
walk between them isn't too much)

U

In message
, Mr
Thant writes
Surely it's easier to do a cross platform change to a westbound
District to get the Piccadilly cross-platform at Baron's Court or
Hammersmith?

Probably, but not all trains go that way do they?

Get a southbound Thameslink at Farringdon, and use the ramps at London
Bridge to get a northbound?

Or just go to City Thameslink, and hope both lifts are working (which
they are occasionally), or use the escalators to go up and over.

(alternatively, there are lifts from SSL to Thameslink at St P, if the
walk between them isn't too much)

There are lifts from Thameslink (but rather a stupid design, you need
two lifts to get just to the main ticket barrier level where with
sensible design one would have done). I think you then need 2 more
lifts to get to the Circle/Met/H&C lines don't you (one to the ticket
hall, one down from there)? As well as the walk of 8-10 minutes, of
course. So it feasible, but depends upon having 4 lifts all working,
the probability of which is in my experience vanishingly small. The
route via Farringdon depends upon a flight of about 4 stone steps, and
I've never yet known them to suffer a mechanical fault. :-)

Eventually, I guess, there will be a lift to the Picc line platforms,
which will make it all a lot easier.


--
Clive Page

In message , at 12:15:18 on Sat, 31
Jan 2009, Clive Page remarked:
1. Take the Thameslink train to Farringdon, from where there are just a
few steps to the anti-clockwise circle line (and maybe a lift after the
current modernisation works are complete?).

Why not exit at StP and take the Circle direct from there? It's a long
walk, but step-free.

2. Take Circle line to somewhere on the western section such as
High St Kensington, and switch to a southbound District line.

Some District Line trains start from a distant bay platform at HSK, but
there's not much you can do about that.

3. Take this to Earl's Court where one can change to a Heathrow-bound
Piccadilly line train using the lifts.

If you stay on the train as far as Hammersmith (changing at Earls Court
if necessary) then it's a cross-platform change to the Picc.

Coming back, the route involves switching at two points to end up on an
anti-clockwise circle line to Moorgate, from which one can at present
get on the level to a train to Luton/Bedford at certain times of the
day. Unfortunately this possibility will soon vanish forever. After
this things get a lot more complicated...

Just stay on the Circle as far as St Pancras, then it's step free to
SPILL (see above).

Another route is HEx (or Connect for the impecunious) to Paddington,
then there's a lift down to the clockwise Circle Line in the middle of
the "Lawn" area.

Island platforms are often helpful, so another way from the
anti-clockwise Circle at Farringdon to the north (avoiding StPancras
LUL) is to catch a southbound Thameslink to Loughborough Junction, then
cross platform to catch a northbound.
--
Roland Perry

On 31 Jan, 12:49, Clive Page wrote:
There are lifts from Thameslink (but rather a stupid design, you need
two lifts to get just to the main ticket barrier level where with
sensible design one would have done).
Because you can have a lift emerge on its own on the other side of the
road...

lifts to get to the Circle/Met/H&C lines don't you (one to the ticket
hall, one down from there)? * As well as the walk of 8-10 minutes, of
course. *
I can't see why they can't just have an escalator connection from the
south end of the Thameslink platforms to the northern line.

The route via Farringdon depends upon a flight of about 4 stone steps, and
I've never yet known them to suffer a mechanical fault. :-)
They are being rebuilt.

Eventually, I guess, there will be a lift to the Picc line platforms,
which will make it all a lot easier.
Until they built the Victoria line through them, in such a far-sighted
way, there were lifts to the piccadilly platforms.

On 27 Jan, 12:45, "Paul Scott" wrote:
I've done a composite, as best I can quickly, which shows it's not
completely to scale:http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg
10/10 - *A 'must save' for future explanations of all this stuff...

Wouldn't it have been better to just re-use the original northern line
lifts, which come out right next to the current ticket hall?

In message
, at
05:10:09 on Sat, 31 Jan 2009, lonelytraveller
remarked:
I've done a composite, as best I can quickly, which shows it's not
completely to scale:http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg
10/10 - *A 'must save' for future explanations of all this stuff...

Wouldn't it have been better to just re-use the original northern line
lifts, which come out right next to the current ticket hall?

Maybe that's what they are doing[1], and need to close the passageway
towards KX Concourse for the duration. (The part of the passageway near
the ticket office will re-open later as it's part of the eventual route
to the Northern ticket hall, and the new KX-plaza entrance.)

[1] Albeit the entrance to the new lift is presumably going to be
"airside", which may not be the case for this old lift you talk about.
--
Roland Perry

On 31 Jan, 14:14, Roland Perry wrote:
Wouldn't it have been better to just re-use the original northern line
lifts, which come out right next to the current ticket hall?
Maybe that's what they are doing[1]
The tunnel they are closing is closer to the former picadilly line
lift shaft. The tunnel to be closed is near the east end of the
northern line platforms, approximately where the hoarding has been
added at the bottom of the escalators (which probably explains the
hoarding).

The old northern line lifts were further along the platforms, in the
middle where the cross passages are.

[1] Albeit the entrance to the new lift is presumably going to be
"airside", which may not be the case for this old lift you talk about.
It depends which ticket hall you are thinking of. The new lift is
airside of the "tube ticket hall", but the old northern line lifts are
not. However, the old lifts are definitely airside from the point of
view of the "northern ticket hall".

In message
, at
06:55:26 on Sat, 31 Jan 2009, lonelytraveller
remarked:
[1] Albeit the entrance to the new lift is presumably going to be
"airside", which may not be the case for this old lift you talk about.
It depends which ticket hall you are thinking of. The new lift is
airside of the "tube ticket hall", but the old northern line lifts are
not. However, the old lifts are definitely airside from the point of
view of the "northern ticket hall".

I didn't know these old lifts existed until they were mentioned earlier
today. Can you describe where they are on my plan (percentage X and Y
co-ords if necessary):

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

I've added a red/white circle where I assume the new lift is going, and
a red/purple circle at the only place the Northern Ticket Hall's airside
concourse is at subsurface level.

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite-b.jpg
--
Roland Perry