[original thread at uk.railway]
[x-posted to uk.transport.london]

On 11 Feb, 18:34, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Announced today by Network Rail:

"From Monday February 16th a further 16 daily Virgin services will be added
to almost 100 services that were introduced in December. London Midland will
introduce an extra six services to add to their 52 extra services added in
December. Southern will see the extension to Milton Keynes of its 32 trains
between Watford and south and west London..."

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...ReleaseID=4171

A rather parochial comment on my part regarding the extended Southern
services to MKC (though relevant to utl readers), but Southern reckon
they'll be a great success to which I can only agree:
http://www.southernrailway.com/news.php?id=222

---quote---
Southern’s hourly service will provide direct trains for people
travelling between towns along the West Coast Main Line and locations
in west and south London, including Wembley, Shepherd’s Bush and
Kensington Olympia. With connections to many other destinations at
Clapham Junction and East Croydon these trains will prove very
popular.
---/quote---

No direct service to Gatwick or Brighton any more of course but the
interchange at East Croydon for trains to these places is relatively
painless, with ramps and waiting rooms (with, FWIW, some buffet
facilities).

What's the long term future of these trains off the WCML & WLL with
regards to going to all the way East Croydon? I forget the detailed
machinations discussed in the South London RUS but I'm sure I recall
reading about the possibility that they might terminate at Clapham Jn
in the future (platform 17 in particular is currently no good for
hoards of interchanging passengers).


So presumably the 'weather problems' *which led to the 2/3 BHM & MAN WC
timetable running until yesterday have been solved, and LM have sorted all
their traincrew diagramming out...

Paul

Such cynicism! What could possibly go wrong...

"Mizter T" wrote:

What's the long term future of these trains off the WCML & WLL with
regards to going to all the way East Croydon? I forget the detailed
machinations discussed in the South London RUS but I'm sure I recall
reading about the possibility that they might terminate at Clapham Jn
in the future (platform 17 in particular is currently no good for
hoards of interchanging passengers).

Wasn't South Croydon also mentioned at some stage?

FWIW, punctuality on the Brighton main line/Coastway services I use has been
poor since the December timetable change, and congestion at East Croydon is
often the cause of delay. Therefore, in my view, the fewer trains which
terminate and reverse here, the better. Would Purley not offer an
alternative?

Chris

On 11 Feb, 22:37, "Chris Read" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:
What's the long term future of these trains off the WCML & WLL with
regards to going to all the way East Croydon? I forget the detailed
machinations discussed in the South London RUS but I'm sure I recall
reading about the possibility that they might terminate at Clapham Jn
in the future (platform 17 in particular is currently no good for
hoards of interchanging passengers).

Wasn't South Croydon also mentioned at some stage?

FWIW, punctuality on the Brighton main line/Coastway services I use has been
poor since the December timetable change, and congestion at *East Croydon is
often the cause of delay. Therefore, in my view, the fewer trains which
terminate and reverse here, the better. Would Purley not offer an
alternative?


I believe the trains actually reverse out-of-service at South Croydon,
but southbound they tip-out at East Croydon - not sure how good they
are at doing this there.

I recall one of the South London RUS recommendations regarding the MKC-
Watford-Croydon services was that of reversing at South Croydon (not
considered ideal for whatever reason but doable nonetheless), but
perhaps I simply and erroneously read into that that they'd run in
service to/from South Croydon.

On Feb 11, 11:18*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 11 Feb, 22:37, "Chris Read" wrote:





"Mizter T" wrote:
What's the long term future of these trains off the WCML & WLL with
regards to going to all the way East Croydon? I forget the detailed
machinations discussed in the South London RUS but I'm sure I recall
reading about the possibility that they might terminate at Clapham Jn
in the future (platform 17 in particular is currently no good for
hoards of interchanging passengers).

Wasn't South Croydon also mentioned at some stage?

FWIW, punctuality on the Brighton main line/Coastway services I use has been
poor since the December timetable change, and congestion at *East Croydon is
often the cause of delay. Therefore, in my view, the fewer trains which
terminate and reverse here, the better. Would Purley not offer an
alternative?

I believe the trains actually reverse out-of-service at South Croydon,
but southbound they tip-out at East Croydon - not sure how good they
are at doing this there.


The one time that I took the service all the way to East Croydon, on a
Saturday, it reversed in Platform 5 at East Croydon. Off-peak trains
have 13 mins if they reverse at East Croydon. I think that reversal
here takes less line capacity, as other services can run 'around' a
train in Platform 5. Reversal at South Croydon involves blocking the
Slow Reversible from East Croydon - South Croydon for most of that 13
mins.

I recall one of the South London RUS recommendations regarding the MKC-
Watford-Croydon services was that of reversing at South Croydon (not
considered ideal for whatever reason but doable nonetheless), but
perhaps I simply and erroneously read into that that they'd run in
service to/from South Croydon.

"Mizter T" wrote:

I believe the trains actually reverse out-of-service at South Croydon, but
southbound they tip-out at East Croydon - not sure how good they are at
doing this there.

I recall one of the South London RUS recommendations regarding the
MKC-Watford-Croydon services was that of reversing at South Croydon (not
considered ideal for whatever reason but doable nonetheless), but perhaps
I simply and erroneously read into that that they'd run in service to/from
South Croydon.

http://217.23.229.206/jpclient.exe (Traveline North East & Cumbria) [1]
suggests that the trains use platform 5 at East Croydon in both directions,
arriving generally at xx57 and departing at xx10, so I assume they lay over
there and don't need to go to South Croydon. If I had the time, I would
check Traveline to see if any other trains are booked through platform 5 at
that time, but I currently lack the motivation to do so!

I do, however, believe you are right that there was at one time a suggestion
that these trains might run to South Croydon in service.

[1] It's bizarre that one has to use this particular resource, but other
regional Travelines don't show the platforming!

On Feb 11, 11:35*pm, "John Salmon" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote:
I believe the trains actually reverse out-of-service at South Croydon, but
southbound they tip-out at East Croydon - not sure how good they are at
doing this there.
I recall one of the South London RUS recommendations regarding the
MKC-Watford-Croydon services was that of reversing at South Croydon (not
considered ideal for whatever reason but doable nonetheless), but perhaps
I simply and erroneously read into that that they'd run in service to/from
South Croydon.

http://217.23.229.206/jpclient.exe(Traveline North East & Cumbria) [1]
suggests that the trains use platform 5 at East Croydon in both directions,
arriving generally at xx57 and departing at xx10, so I assume they lay over
there and don't need to go to South Croydon. *If I had the time, I would
check Traveline to see if any other trains are booked through platform 5 at
that time, but I currently lack the motivation to do so!

No need - the trains do indeed sit on platform 5. 6 handles almost all
down slow traffic.

"EE507" wrote in message
...
On Feb 11, 11:35 pm, "John Salmon" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote:
I believe the trains actually reverse out-of-service at South Croydon,
but
southbound they tip-out at East Croydon - not sure how good they are at
doing this there.
I recall one of the South London RUS recommendations regarding the
MKC-Watford-Croydon services was that of reversing at South Croydon (not
considered ideal for whatever reason but doable nonetheless), but
perhaps
I simply and erroneously read into that that they'd run in service
to/from
South Croydon.

http://217.23.229.206/jpclient.exe(Traveline North East & Cumbria) [1]
suggests that the trains use platform 5 at East Croydon in both
directions,
arriving generally at xx57 and departing at xx10, so I assume they lay
over
there and don't need to go to South Croydon. If I had the time, I would
check Traveline to see if any other trains are booked through platform 5
at
that time, but I currently lack the motivation to do so!

No need - the trains do indeed sit on platform 5. 6 handles almost all
down slow traffic.

Indeed. Platforhas bor terminatinggg local trains for many years, with down
slow on 6 and up slow on 4. These don't conflict with fast line trains on 3
(down), 2 (reversible) and 1 (up), although AIUI platforms 2 - 5 are
signalled reversibly.

Peter

"Peter Masson" wrote
[East Croydon]
Indeed. Platforhas bor terminatinggg local trains for many years, with
down
slow on 6 and up slow on 4. These don't conflict with fast line trains on
3
(down), 2 (reversible) and 1 (up), although AIUI platforms 2 - 5 are
signalled reversibly.

Indeed they are, with 3 and 4 being quite difficult to traverse in the
'wrong' direction, although I've done both of those things.
I'll still like someone to tell me how to find a train on which I can travel
northwards from platform 2 under a position 1 'feather', i.e. using the
first left-hand crossover to the up fast.

On Feb 12, 12:56*am, "John Salmon" wrote:
"Peter Masson" wrote
[East Croydon]

Indeed. Platforhas bor terminatinggg local trains for many years, *with
down
slow on 6 and up slow on 4. These don't conflict with fast line trains on
3
(down), 2 (reversible) and 1 (up), although AIUI platforms 2 - 5 are
signalled reversibly.

Indeed they are, with 3 and 4 being quite difficult to traverse in the
'wrong' direction, although I've done both of those things.
I'll still like someone to tell me how to find a train on which I can travel
northwards from platform 2 under a position 1 'feather', i.e. using the
first left-hand crossover to the up fast.

Down from 4 was fairly common in the evening peak in the last
timetable, as the 18:20 to Three Bridges was *always* late by at least
4 mins. An enterprising signaller would then put the 18:26 Horsham in
4 (8 min gap in up trains as I recall), freeing up 3 for the 18:30
Soton/Littlehampton. On only one occasion did my train (the 18:30) use
4.

In article
,
Mizter T wrote:
Wasn't South Croydon also mentioned at some stage?

FWIW, punctuality on the Brighton main line/Coastway services I use
has been poor since the December timetable change, and congestion at
East Croydon is often the cause of delay. Therefore, in my view, the
fewer trains which terminate and reverse here, the better. Would
Purley not offer an alternative?


I believe the trains actually reverse out-of-service at South Croydon,
but southbound they tip-out at East Croydon - not sure how good they
are at doing this there.

When I travelled on it, a few weeks ago, it came into East Croydon and then
changed into a Watford Junction train while still in the platform.

--
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband
www.davidhwild.me.uk