On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:50:28 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 06/12/2013 16:16, d wrote:
They do that anyway even if there hasn't been a train througn for 10 minutes.
I don't think I've ever been on another metro system that has to "regulate"
itself. The trains just run. If you have trains every 2 minutes why do you
need a timetable anyway? They just run up and down the line and stop at the
end of the day. The drivers obviously need a roster but what difference does
it make if they pick up train A, B, C or D? They're all the bloody same.


The diagrams are different, not all trains go right to the end of the
line, then you have all the different branches. Many metro systems are
just a collection of there and back lines which will be much simpler to
operate.

Well there is that. But the jubilee, bakerloo, victoria & W&C are just there
and back lines so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:50:28 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 06/12/2013 16:16, d wrote:
They do that anyway even if there hasn't been a train througn for 10 minutes.
I don't think I've ever been on another metro system that has to "regulate"
itself. The trains just run. If you have trains every 2 minutes why do you
need a timetable anyway? They just run up and down the line and stop at the
end of the day. The drivers obviously need a roster but what difference does
it make if they pick up train A, B, C or D? They're all the bloody same.


The diagrams are different, not all trains go right to the end of the
line, then you have all the different branches. Many metro systems are
just a collection of there and back lines which will be much simpler to
operate.

Well there is that. But the jubilee, bakerloo, victoria & W&C are just there
and back lines so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.

Many of these trains don't travel the full length of the line (apart from
the Drain, of course), and Bakerloo trains have to mix with scheduled
Overground services. But the reason to regulate the services is not just to
maintain the timetable, but to stop trains bunching after one has been held
up for any reason.

On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:50:28 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 06/12/2013 16:16, d wrote:
They do that anyway even if there hasn't been a train througn for 10 minutes.
I don't think I've ever been on another metro system that has to "regulate"
itself. The trains just run. If you have trains every 2 minutes why do you
need a timetable anyway? They just run up and down the line and stop at the
end of the day. The drivers obviously need a roster but what difference does
it make if they pick up train A, B, C or D? They're all the bloody same.


The diagrams are different, not all trains go right to the end of the
line, then you have all the different branches. Many metro systems are
just a collection of there and back lines which will be much simpler to
operate.

Well there is that. But the jubilee, bakerloo, victoria & W&C are just there
and back lines

They aren't completely. Not all trains go all the way every trip and the
H&C has to dovetail into the Met, District and Circle lines.

so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:59:09 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.

AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.

--
Spud

On 07/12/2013 10:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:

Well there is that. But the jubilee, bakerloo, victoria & W&C are just
there
and back lines

They aren't completely. Not all trains go all the way every trip and the
H&C has to dovetail into the Met, District and Circle lines.

Last time I checked the W&C and the H&C were different beasties.

On 06/12/2013 17:13, Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:44:15 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:
May be a legal or commercial requirement.

I did wonder, though my local Co-op asks if you want a card receipt and
doesn't print one if not. An option might be to add a cheap till receipt
printer.

Not sure how that would help, adds complication to the machinery and as
sure as eggs is eggs someone on here will moan that they should do it
all with one machine as they do in
Switzerland/France/Japan/Germany/Middlesbrough.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:59:09 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.

AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 07/12/2013 11:31, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:

Well there is that. But the jubilee, bakerloo, victoria & W&C are just
there
and back lines

They aren't completely. Not all trains go all the way every trip and the
H&C has to dovetail into the Met, District and Circle lines.

Last time I checked the W&C and the H&C were different beasties.

So they are but then pausing at intermediate stops doesn't happen on the
W&C.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:59:09 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.

AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

The first LU Programme Machines went into service in 1955 and I
believe that a few remain in use even today:
http://www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/programme-machine/
and
http://www.districtdavesforum.co.uk/...crollTo=377993

On 07/12/2013 15:09, Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:59:09 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.

AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

The first LU Programme Machines went into service in 1955

cough 1958 at Kennington, though it wasn't patented till 1960.

and I
believe that a few remain in use even today:
http://www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/programme-machine/
and
http://www.districtdavesforum.co.uk/...crollTo=377993


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail