Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard J.
writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work off
to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just aren't
catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they aren't
prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

In message , David of Broadway
writes
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work
off to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just
aren't catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they
aren't prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.

Can you name the Paris Metro similar system ? Are you aware where you
buy it ? How about New York, or maybe Moscow ?

I think you're being a might near sighted about this. I'm sure a great
many tourists arrive here without a clue about Oyster and (to their
mind) get ripped off for expensive fares.

Ken needs to stop inflating cash paid fares and return to the old system
that worked well since.... well forever !

--
Edward Cowling London UK

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , David of Broadway
writes
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work
off to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just
aren't catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they
aren't prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at
Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.

Can you name the Paris Metro similar system ? Are you aware where you
buy it ? How about New York, or maybe Moscow ?

See my sig. I live in New York. (I visited London the past two summers.)

I think you're being a might near sighted about this. I'm sure a great
many tourists arrive here without a clue about Oyster and (to their
mind) get ripped off for expensive fares.

It's always a good idea to do a bit of research before traveling.

Still, for those who haven't done research, Oyster is advertised all
over the place, and the ads make it quite clear that Oyster fares are
cheaper than cash fares.

Perhaps the solution is to stop offering individual tickets entirely. I
wouldn't be surprised if that's the ultimate plan. New York gave up its
traditional tokens in 2002 or 2003.

Ken needs to stop inflating cash paid fares and return to the old system
that worked well since.... well forever !

You like to stand in line to buy a ticket each time you travel?

You like to have to pay extension fares in advance, once per trip?

You don't see the value in daily capping?

You don't see the vastly reduced costs in cash collection?

Oyster may not be perfect but it's a lot better than what you'll find in
most cities.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

I visited New York City a while ago, and I thought that you could buy a
single fare for $2, albeit in the form of a magnetic strip.

BTW, what are they doing over there in terms of introducing a SmartCard for
longer lengths of time? Those flimsy MetroCards with their magnetic strips
are so out of fashion.

"David of Broadway" wrote in message
...
Perhaps the solution is to stop offering individual tickets entirely. I
wouldn't be surprised if that's the ultimate plan. New York gave up its
traditional tokens in 2002 or 2003.

wrote:
I visited New York City a while ago, and I thought that you could buy a
single fare for $2, albeit in the form of a magnetic strip.

That was a SingleRide card. It's essentially a paper MetroCard with a
two-hour time limit and no intermodal transfers.

BTW, what are they doing over there in terms of introducing a SmartCard for
longer lengths of time? Those flimsy MetroCards with their magnetic strips
are so out of fashion.

We're working on it! A pilot program was recently completed on the
Lexington Avenue line.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:06:34 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

In message , David of Broadway
writes
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes

The problem is that despite raising the congestion charge and
enlarging the area, all most of us can see from Ken in the way of
transport improvement is buses.... buses the numbers of which even
God hasn't seen before :-) Then Ken made it 2 quid to get on them
!

Don't be silly; it's £1 with Oyster.

I know it's away from the thread, but I really think Oyster isn't the
solution for many people who Ken should be helping. The out of work
off to the odd interview, granny on a special trip.... they just
aren't catered for, and of course it can hit tourists hard if they
aren't prepared for it.

Prepared for what? I had no trouble obtaining an Oyster card at Heathrow.

And I can't understand why anyone who lives in the London area or ever
visits the London area wouldn't have an Oyster card.

Can you name the Paris Metro similar system ?

Please note these responses are from memory and I have not checked
websites.

Mobilis is the day ticket. Carnet is for more occasional users. They
have not yet implemented a PAYG system but seasons are on Smartcard. If
you want to be ripped off you can buy a Paris Visite - just like the way
we used to rip off tourists with Visitor Travelcards. I don't recall
people howling about how unfair that was and how discriminatory it was
given the accusations placed against Oyster.

Are you aware where you
buy it ?

Every SNCF and RATP station in Paris system will sell a Mobilis, every
RATP station will sell a Carnet and you can buy Paris Visite at Waterloo
Eurostar if you want. You used to be able to buy on the train but I
think that's been stopped now.

How about New York,

Metrocard - either in a PAYG type format but with an effective %
discount or unlimited rides over a fixed time period. All Subway
stations with a manned ticket booth sell them as a minimum. There may be
other outlets but it's been years since I've been to NYC. until the
yanks stop treating all visitors as potential criminals and terrorists
it will be a long time before I visit again despite the fact I love the
city.

or maybe Moscow ?

Never been and never checked. From memory there used to be tokens in
use but I understand a smartcard system has been installed on the Moscow
Metro. Representatives came across to see London's early smartcard
trials at Harrow and were very impressed.

Singapore is the EZ Pass and I have one in my wallet.

Hong Kong is Octopus and I held one of those cards for years and years
until the card regrettably failed on my penultimate journey on my last
visit there.

None of this is remotely difficult to deal with or understand. Just
about every guide book I have ever bought has a decent section on local
public transport and tickets and my Rough Guide to London (2003 edition
so before Oyster) has a good, clear explanation of ticketing options
available then. I imagine it deals with Oyster in the same way in the
latest edition.

I think you're being a might near sighted about this. I'm sure a great
many tourists arrive here without a clue about Oyster and (to their
mind) get ripped off for expensive fares.

As Mr Jelf will vouch a great many tourists are so terrified by the mere
thought of going anywhere by public transport that they never travel by
tube or by bus. Personally I think they are missing out hugely but
obviously you are routinely raped, attacked and assaulted every time you
go within ½ a mile of a bus stop or tube platform ;-)

As for the rest many people are in possession of brains and do suitable
research in advance of arrival - as I do when I visit somewhere else.
This group provides a decent amount of informal advice on exactly this
subject.

TfL are taking additional steps to improve the availability of Oyster
based travel to visitors and I'm sure it will be just as good as it was
when the old network of agents were tasked with flogging overpriced
Visitor Travelcards.

Usually my first purchase on arrival is a ride at will ticket that gives
me freedom and flexibility to go as I please. I have never encountered
a problem with doing this anywhere in the world.

Ken needs to stop inflating cash paid fares and return to the old system
that worked well since.... well forever !

Which is simply not going to happen. There will be no return to the old
system although I imagine differentials may moderate once Oyster is
available on all modes across all of London and take up rates on Oyster
are very high.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

Metrocard - either in a PAYG type format but with an effective %
discount or unlimited rides over a fixed time period. All Subway
stations with a manned ticket booth sell them as a minimum.

There are also vending machines at all station entrances, manned and
unmanned alike. Unlike at the booths, credit and debit cards are valid
at the machines.

There may be
other outlets but it's been years since I've been to NYC.

There are, although I haven't used any since 2001, when CitySearch
stopped selling MetroCards by mail order.

The one-day unlimited Fun Pass (which, at $7, is a ripoff) is ONLY sold
at vending machines and at out-of-system vendors -- it is NOT sold at
booths.

until the
yanks stop treating all visitors as potential criminals and terrorists
it will be a long time before I visit again despite the fact I love the
city.

If it's any consolations, citizens are treated similarly.

In under two years, we'll have a new president.

Singapore is the EZ Pass and I have one in my wallet.

Interesting. The automated toll collection system that started in the
New York area and has spread across the Northeast (U.S.) and beyond is
called E-ZPass.

Which is simply not going to happen. There will be no return to the old
system although I imagine differentials may moderate once Oyster is
available on all modes across all of London and take up rates on Oyster
are very high.

Quite reasonable.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 15:08:48 -0400, David of Broadway
wrote:

Singapore is the EZ Pass and I have one in my wallet.

Interesting. The automated toll collection system that started in the
New York area and has spread across the Northeast (U.S.) and beyond is
called E-ZPass.

EZ-Link, I'm fairly sure, is the Singaporean variety.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

David of Broadway wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

until the
yanks stop treating all visitors as potential criminals and terrorists
it will be a long time before I visit again despite the fact I love the
city.

If it's any consolations, citizens are treated similarly.

In under two years, we'll have a new president.

On second thought, might I suggest reconsidering?

Currently, most of our B Division (former BMT/IND, with lettered route
designations) routes run at least some rolling stock with windows at the
front of the train, with a nice view of the track ahead (like on DLR).
Unfortunately, most if not all of that older rolling stock -- the R-32,
R-38, R-40, and R-42 -- is slated to be replaced by the R-160 order,
which has already started coming in.

In particular, these ...

http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=52000
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=42146
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=51538
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=43700

.... are being replaced by these ...

http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=42126
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=39895
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=42715
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=39875

We've already lost front windows on the A Division (former IRT), except
on the Flushing-bound 7. Don't wait until they're gone from the B
Division too!

If anybody's planning to visit New York, send me an email and I'll tell
you where you can find what.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:41:05 -0400, David of Broadway
wrote:

David of Broadway wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

until the
yanks stop treating all visitors as potential criminals and terrorists
it will be a long time before I visit again despite the fact I love the
city.

If it's any consolations, citizens are treated similarly.

In under two years, we'll have a new president.

On second thought, might I suggest reconsidering?

You may make any suggestion you wish.

I very much doubt that I will change my mind. If I decided I wanted to
travel to somewhere that made no pretence that it was other than a
dictatorship with highly restrictive entry rules then I would know I
would have to submit to stupid security and immigration checks. It would
be my express choice to submit to such stupidity.

To have to do the same to travel to "the land of the free" which spends
billions allegedly spreading freedom and democracy around the world I
find unacceptable. I appreciate I am losing out my not visiting what I
recognise as a true world city but then the American economy is also
losing out my not having me as a visitor. What goes around comes around.
One day someone will relax the rules to what is acceptable.

Currently, most of our B Division (former BMT/IND, with lettered route
designations) routes run at least some rolling stock with windows at the
front of the train, with a nice view of the track ahead (like on DLR).
Unfortunately, most if not all of that older rolling stock -- the R-32,
R-38, R-40, and R-42 -- is slated to be replaced by the R-160 order,
which has already started coming in.

In particular, these ...

http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=52000
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=42146
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=51538
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=43700

Excellent pictures.

If anybody's planning to visit New York, send me an email and I'll tell
you where you can find what.

In the meantime I get my small NYPD subway fix by watching the truly
excellent video to George Michael's Killer / Papa was a rolling stone. I
was going to set you the challenge to see if you could identify the
various locations as they seem to be archetypal shots of subway trains /
junctions. Not too bothered by the stations as they are particularly
difficult to identify.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH6GIr_O07o

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!