Tom Barry wrote:
solar penguin wrote:

Whenever it starts, it'll be weird to have PAYG finally becoming at
least vaguely useful, rather than just an awkward and inconvenient
replacement for Savers bus tickets like it is at present. But
somehow I
can't imagine it ever happening. I mean, what are the cahnces of
pepole
running and working in public transport ever doing something vaguely

useful for their customers...?



Meanwhile, in the real world, PAYG is extremely useful and has made
travelling by tube and bus much more pleasant*. Face it, if people
*didn't* find it useful and convenient we wouldn't be clamouring for
it
to be extended to National Rail, would we?

It's not particularly hard to pretend that people running public
transport do nothing useful when you ignore the useful things they do.

Tom

* Example: I'm travelling from Ealing Broadway to Hammersmith. I get
a
phone call from some friends in a pub in Piccadilly Circus and decide
to
alter my plans and go for a swift half. If, back in the day, I'd
bought
an Ealing to Hammersmith ticket, I'm screwed, I have to get off at
Hammersmith and buy a new one. Now I'm using PAYG, I just change onto

the Piccadilly and go on my merry way. That's a change that's made my

life just that little bit less regulated by someone else.

I couldn't agree more, though I think solarpenguin's point was that if
(like me and many others) your nearest tube station is 8 miles away
(despite only being in zone 4), you currently either have to commit to
starting your journey with a long bus journey (then stay within the
PAYG-enabled system), or assume that you might want to use a train at
some point that day and buy a paper travelcard. For large swathes of
south London, PAYG is currently nothing more than a glorified one day
bus pass.
--
Current nearest station: Pimlico

Rupert Candy wrote:


I couldn't agree more, though I think solarpenguin's point was that if
(like me and many others) your nearest tube station is 8 miles away
(despite only being in zone 4), you currently either have to commit to
starting your journey with a long bus journey (then stay within the
PAYG-enabled system), or assume that you might want to use a train at
some point that day and buy a paper travelcard. For large swathes of
south London, PAYG is currently nothing more than a glorified one day
bus pass.

Exactly. It's a point I've made many times before. At present, PAYG is
_only_ really useful for those people who just happen to live near a
Tube/Overground/DLR/etc. station. (Does anyone know if they're the
majority of Londeners? I don't think so, but it would be interesting to
see some statistics.) But for the rest of us, PAYG is currently just an
inconvenient form of cheap bus ticket.

This is a pretty obvious statement, but each time I point it out, I get
accused of talking nonsense.

In message of Fri, 6 Mar 2009
10:39:28 in uk.transport.london, Tom Barry
writes
* Example: I'm travelling from Ealing Broadway to Hammersmith. I get a
phone call from some friends in a pub in Piccadilly Circus and decide
to alter my plans and go for a swift half. If, back in the day, I'd
bought an Ealing to Hammersmith ticket, I'm screwed, I have to get off
at Hammersmith and buy a new one. Now I'm using PAYG, I just change
onto the Piccadilly and go on my merry way. That's a change that's
made my life just that little bit less regulated by someone else.

An even better scenario is a stop at Hammersmith on the way to
Piccadilly Circus. As long as you keep the interchange to 30 minutes and
continue from Hammersmith (H&C), you will get away with one fare.

A swift drink in The Green Man at Bank is also useful and continuing by
the same gateline seems to be free while escalators are being replaced,
but I don't swear to that and don't try it at the weekend when that pub
is closed.

Incidentally, the March 2009 Tube Map warns about changing at Bank; its
predecessor did not.
--
Walter Briscoe

On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 11:28:03AM -0600, Rupert Candy wrote:

This date is still being bandied around, even by Southeastern ticket
staff. Yet as far as I can see only Southern stand any chance of being
ready in time (neoprene-cloaked Oyster readers at all stations now).

They must be very well hidden. I've certainly not noticed any at
Thornton Heath.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

Vegetarian: n: a person who, due to malnutrition caused by
poor lifestyle choices, is eight times more likely to
catch TB than a normal person

In article ,
(solar penguin) wrote:

Exactly. It's a point I've made many times before. At present,
PAYG is _only_ really useful for those people who just happen to
live near a Tube/Overground/DLR/etc. station. (Does anyone know if
they're the majority of Londeners? I don't think so, but it would
be interesting to see some statistics.) But for the rest of us,
PAYG is currently just an inconvenient form of cheap bus ticket.

I am pretty sure you are in a minority, mostly from Sarf Lunnon, I'm
afraid. We should be grateful that it's being fixed at last, I suppose.

Although my London PAYG usage often involves going to my mother's near
East Putney tube, the inability usually to go to Putney (SWT) without
incurring a fare premium is a right PITA.

This is a pretty obvious statement, but each time I point it out, I
get accused of talking nonsense.

The majority usually don't understand problems for minorities.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mar 6, 12:17*pm, David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 11:28:03AM -0600, Rupert Candy wrote:
This date is still being bandied around, even by Southeastern ticket
staff. Yet as far as I can see only Southern stand any chance of being
ready in time (neoprene-cloaked Oyster readers at all stations now).

They must be very well hidden. *I've certainly not noticed any at
Thornton Heath.

Purely anecdotal evidence on my part - for example, I was particularly
surprised to see two (yes, *two*) such cloaked Oyster readers at the
bottom of the steps to the single lonely platform at Banstead!

On Mar 6, 11:35*am, "solar penguin"
wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:

I couldn't agree more, though I think solarpenguin's point was that if
(like me and many others) your nearest tube station is 8 miles away
(despite only being in zone 4), you currently either have to commit to
starting your journey with a long bus journey (then stay within the
PAYG-enabled system), or assume that you might want to use a train at
some point that day and buy a paper travelcard. For large swathes of
south London, PAYG is currently nothing more than a glorified one day
bus pass.

Exactly. *It's a point I've made many times before. *At present, PAYG is
_only_ really useful for those people who just happen to live near a
Tube/Overground/DLR/etc. station. *(Does anyone know if they're the
majority of Londeners? *I don't think so, but it would be interesting to
see some statistics.) *But for the rest of us, PAYG is currently just an
inconvenient form of cheap bus ticket.

I chose not to live in South London, because the transport links are
so unspeakably bad (with PAYG being a relevant, but minor, aspect of
the general transport dreadfulness of South London). You could have
done the same. Instead, you agreed to live in a horrible desert,
presumably because the rent was cheaper or something.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Rupert Candy wrote:

For large swathes of
south London, PAYG is currently nothing more than a glorified one day
bus pass.

And can I add it's not exclusive to south London - there are segments north
of the river where NR is basically essential for starting any long journey.
Yes I can use PAYG on the GOBLIN but for the far more usual, useful and used
east-west route it's either paper tickets on National Express or a bus route
predominantly served by packed bendies. (And to rub salt in the Stratford to
Liverpool Street section *is* covered by PAYG but the only way to take
advantage of it involves getting off at Stratford and then waiting for the
following train.)

solar penguin wrote:

Exactly. It's a point I've made many times before. At present, PAYG is
_only_ really useful for those people who just happen to live near a
Tube/Overground/DLR/etc. station. (Does anyone know if they're the
majority of Londeners? I don't think so, but it would be interesting to
see some statistics.)

They may not tell the full story though because being close to any
Tube/Overground/DLR/etc station doesn't mean it's your route. I for example
am close to Wanstead Park Overground, but the main station here is Forest
Gate NR. (And I don't think a crude partition of the area by nearest station
would remotely reflect anything.)

wrote:

I chose not to live in South London, because the transport links are
so unspeakably bad (with PAYG being a relevant, but minor, aspect of
the general transport dreadfulness of South London). You could have
done the same. Instead, you agreed to live in a horrible desert,
presumably because the rent was cheaper or something.

My choice of location predates the introduction of PAYG and the transport
links here are generally okay (bar National Express's regular failure to
provide rail replacement bus services for engineering works - no the regular
25 service is *not* an adequate fill-in) but if prices are being inflated to
punish me and my neighbours for not taking up a different payment option, it
is absurd if that option is not realistically available.