In message , at 15:48:30 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, John Williamson remarked:
The passengers can't sue for false imprisonment in the circumstances
you give, either. It's been tried and the case failed. Passenger safety
was the reason quoted.

That's back to the straw man that it's safer to drop the passenger off
on the grass verge of an unlit country road, rather than at a proper bus
stop in the High Street.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. I'm not asking
the bus driver to vary his route to drop me off, merely to let me off
the bus at a point closer to my actual destination than the station.

This will cost all the other passengers on the bus about a minute,
for the bus to slow down, stop, and for you to gather your bits and
depart, and for the driver to set off again and get back to linespeed.

One minute probably doesn't matter too much, but if everyone on the
bus has the same attitude, then soon the bus is an hour later than
it would otherwise have been. And that's not fair on the poor sod
at the end of the line.

While I would clearly be happy to walk back from the station of
delivered there on time by train, being delivered there an hour or more
late by bus seems to me to shift the burden of responsibility back onto
the rail company (and their bus).

It may, of course, be sensible for the TOC to arrange for bustitution
services to stop at both the station and the village high street in
the example you cite; but even if that's true, it's their decision as
how best to try an minimize the inconvience to all their passengers,
not just you.

--
Mike Bristow

On 23/11/2012 12:46, d wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:12:43 +0000
Graeme wrote:
On 23/11/2012 09:50, d wrote:
I will admit that some bus drivers are jobsworths and will absolutely refuse
to
open the doors even if stuck in traffic 10 metres from a stop which is just
being bloody minded for the sake of it, but if you're going to use a bus
you have to accept its not your personal transport.

It is not being bloody minded for the sake of it, if they let you off
away from a stop and you trip and fall, the company is not insured and
the driver can lose his job.

I think its fair to say that if the bus is stopped and isn't going anywhere
anytime soon and its next to the kerb its highly unlikely anyone getting
off is going to have an accident. Its not like bus stops have raised platforms.


That's not what the insurance assessor is going to say. And some bus
stops do have raised curbs to facilitate wheelchair/pushchair access.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 23/11/2012 16:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:48:30 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, John Williamson remarked:
Dropping you at any place other than a contractually agreed place is
in contravention of your contract, and if you insist on being dropped
at a place other than your destination, you are in breach of the
conditions of carriage which you agreed to when you bought the ticket,

Many tickets (and certainly the ones I was using) allow Break of
Journey. Why wouldn't that also apply to bustituted sections.

You can only break your journey at a station.


As for the contract, the ToC is likely to be in a position where it's
having to refund my fare because I'm more than $foo late getting to my
destination. They are more in breach than I am.

and if any problems (For example, someone misses an important
appointment that they would otherwise have attended) arise because of
this, you can be sued by the TOC for damages.

What if I'm the one late for an appointment, and the ToC can mitigate
their loss by dropping me off en-route?

If you are the one that's late you've got no case against them.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 23/11/2012 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:48:30 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, John Williamson remarked:
The passengers can't sue for false imprisonment in the circumstances
you give, either. It's been tried and the case failed. Passenger
safety was the reason quoted.

That's back to the straw man that it's safer to drop the passenger off
on the grass verge of an unlit country road, rather than at a proper bus
stop in the High Street.

It's not a straw man.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 23/11/2012 13:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:22:06 on Fri, 23 Nov
2012, Graeme Wall remarked:
I believe bus replacement services have designated "bus stops",

No, they just stop on a country road somewhere near the station.

As far as you know, ever read a rail-replacement service contract?

which wouldn't include "middle of the high street".

Unless the station's there, in which case my requirement would not arise.

Therefore the insurance angle might still apply.

But there are official bus stops in the High Street.

But the RRS bus is not authorised to use them.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 23/11/2012 15:04, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
13:59:40 on Fri, 23 Nov 2012, Portsmouth Rider
remarked:

In short: the rail replacement service is NOT a Local Bus Service and
does not operate under the licences issued by the Traffic
Commissioners as a Local Bus Service, and a driver who takes it upon
himself to provide such a service without lawful excuse is breaking
the law.

That's a new excuse. Up to now I'd been trying to debunk the concept
that their insurance would be invalid because they were dropping people
off at highly dangerous bus stops that apparently only regular buses can
safely drop people at. Or that stopping to do so will trash their schedule.

As usual you are exagerating and introducing highly emotive language
that wasn't in the original. Are you moonlighting as a tabloid journalist/


As for running a faux-local-bus-service, I doubt if anyone on such buses
wants to be there. They'd rather be on the train that was cancelled.

It's ridiculous to expect someone might be hovering at the railway
station on the off-chance of a bustitution that might go past their house.

Not if they are aware if the bustitution and know the route it will have
to take.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 23/11/2012 13:30, Paul Scott wrote:
"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
o.uk...

I've been on replacement buses where the driver has asked if anyone
does actually wants to go to a particular station itself, or can the
bus drop off on the main road/village centre/etc to save a slow trip
along a narrow dead-end lane to the station and back.

Hopefully on a set down only service, or the driver knew by other means
no-one was waiting at the station?


It's one in the middle of the closed section so the only rail related
access is by the replacement bus.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:59:40
on Fri, 23 Nov 2012, Portsmouth Rider
remarked:

In short: the rail replacement service is NOT a Local Bus Service and does
not operate under the licences issued by the Traffic Commissioners as a
Local Bus Service, and a driver who takes it upon himself to provide such
a service without lawful excuse is breaking the law.

That's a new excuse. Up to now I'd been trying to debunk the concept that
their insurance would be invalid because they were dropping people off at
highly dangerous bus stops that apparently only regular buses can safely
drop people at. Or that stopping to do so will trash their schedule.

As for running a faux-local-bus-service, I doubt if anyone on such buses
wants to be there. They'd rather be on the train that was cancelled.

It's ridiculous to expect someone might be hovering at the railway station
on the off-chance of a bustitution that might go past their house.
--
Roland Perry

It seems to me that you have missed the point (as well as your stop).

The passengers, as explained upthread, are on the bus by virtue of being
rail passengers whose train is not running. The faux-bus-service, as you put
it, is the bit where the driver is expected to make irregular stops to set
down some of those passengers who are unable to plan their journey from
their destination station, to their home, adequately. I don't think anyone
has countenanced the possibility of someone hovering at the railway
station on the off-chance of a bustitution that might go past their house.

You have had the law stated to you; you have had other factors, as to why
the bus should not drop people off as and when they wish, stated to you as
well. These reasons are not mutually exclusive.

If you buy a ticket to X railway station, you get conveyed to X railway
station. What next..... a demand for a refund because your journey was
actually shorter???

On 23/11/2012 13:30, Paul Scott wrote:
"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
o.uk...

I've been on replacement buses where the driver has asked if anyone
does actually wants to go to a particular station itself, or can the
bus drop off on the main road/village centre/etc to save a slow trip
along a narrow dead-end lane to the station and back.

Hopefully on a set down only service, or the driver knew by other means
no-one was waiting at the station?

I'd hope there would be some contact with the station staff to avoid
leaving people.

Some years ago I used to semi-regularly use a long-distance bus route
which often needed extra buses to shift all the passengers (classic
problem of people travelling outbound throughout the day, but all
wanting to go home at 17:00). /Usually/ they would get all the people
for the final terminus onto one bus, and run it directly rather than
following the normal route. And they would usually drop at the end of my
road if I asked.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK