In message , at
19:33:59 on Fri, 23 Nov 2012, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
Its not like bus stops have raised platforms.

Guided-bus stops do

Some non-guided ones have raised bits of curb.

And in both cases the intention is to make it *safer* to get off the
bus, not more dangerous.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 17:06:05 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

I believe bus replacement services have designated "bus stops",

No, they just stop on a country road somewhere near the station.

As far as you know, ever read a rail-replacement service contract?

If all the station has is a bit of passing country road, that's what
they need to use. The contract won't require the bus operator to install
a bus stop. Indeed, they don't even seem to require the bus driver to
know where the station is - on one trip I had to stand next to the
driver and give him directions.

But there are official bus stops in the High Street.

But the RRS bus is not authorised to use them.

Authorised by whom?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 17:04:26 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, Graeme Wall remarked:
and if any problems (For example, someone misses an important
appointment that they would otherwise have attended) arise because of
this, you can be sued by the TOC for damages.

What if I'm the one late for an appointment, and the ToC can mitigate
their loss by dropping me off en-route?

If you are the one that's late you've got no case against them

I have a case, because it was their train that broke down, ripped up the
OHL, or whatever the reason was they had to find a RRB.

Everyone on the bus is already an hour late for whatever it was they
were going to be doing.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 17:04:54 on Fri, 23 Nov
2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

The passengers can't sue for false imprisonment in the circumstances
you give, either. It's been tried and the case failed. Passenger
safety was the reason quoted.

That's back to the straw man that it's safer to drop the passenger off
on the grass verge of an unlit country road, rather than at a proper bus
stop in the High Street.

It's not a straw man.

What would call it then. "False premise"?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 17:09:08 on Fri, 23 Nov
2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

As for running a faux-local-bus-service, I doubt if anyone on such buses
wants to be there. They'd rather be on the train that was cancelled.

It's ridiculous to expect someone might be hovering at the railway
station on the off-chance of a bustitution that might go past their house.

Not if they are aware if the bustitution and know the route it will
have to take.

If they are aware, but in order to be aware they either need to be
hovering at the railway station waiting for the off-chance that the OHL
will collapse, or monitoring the ToC's twitter feed so they can rush to
the railway station rather than their regular bus stop.

These are extreme corner cases.
--
Roland Perry

On 24/11/2012 09:24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:06:05 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

I believe bus replacement services have designated "bus stops",

No, they just stop on a country road somewhere near the station.

As far as you know, ever read a rail-replacement service contract?

If all the station has is a bit of passing country road, that's what
they need to use. The contract won't require the bus operator to install
a bus stop.

It will require them to stop at a designated place.

Indeed, they don't even seem to require the bus driver to
know where the station is - on one trip I had to stand next to the
driver and give him directions.

I had to do that in Canada! The Canadian was turned short of Toronto
and we were bused[1] up to Capreol to join it. The bus driver didn't
know where the station was but being sat higher than him I could see the
top of a loco over the fences and was able to direct him in.

[1] Well coached actually!


But there are official bus stops in the High Street.

But the RRS bus is not authorised to use them.

Authorised by whom?

The relevant authorities as explained by another poster.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 24/11/2012 09:27, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:04:26 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, Graeme Wall remarked:
and if any problems (For example, someone misses an important
appointment that they would otherwise have attended) arise because of
this, you can be sued by the TOC for damages.

What if I'm the one late for an appointment, and the ToC can mitigate
their loss by dropping me off en-route?

If you are the one that's late you've got no case against them

I have a case, because it was their train that broke down, ripped up the
OHL, or whatever the reason was they had to find a RRB.

Read the T&Cs


Everyone on the bus is already an hour late for whatever it was they
were going to be doing.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

In message , at
18:10:13 on Fri, 23 Nov 2012, Portsmouth Rider
remarked:
It seems to me that you have missed the point (as well as your stop).

The passengers, as explained upthread, are on the bus by virtue of being
rail passengers whose train is not running. The faux-bus-service, as you put
it, is the bit where the driver is expected to make irregular stops to set
down some of those passengers who are unable to plan their journey from
their destination station, to their home, adequately.

The reason they couldn't plan their journey is because the rail service
has unexpectedly collapsed and needs to replaced by a bus.

Therefore their arrival at the destination station has been much
delayed.

Or perhaps everyone should plan for their 'train/bus' to be routinely an
hour late getting them home. It certainly fits the operational criteria
being trotted out in this thread a great deal better.

And what if their planned trip from the destination station to home was
by a scheduled bus, and because they've been delayed they've missed the
last bus? Doesn't that shift the responsibility a bit back to the
bustituion service to drop them off closer to home, if they happen to be
passing?

[True story: Late one evening trains from St Pancras to Nottingham were
being terminated at East Midlands Parkway, with a bus to Nottingham.

A direct bus would have passed the end of my road (on the outskirts of
Nottingham) avoiding a futile trip ten minutes further to the railway
station plus a taxi back.

But they were sending all the buses via Beeston, which because of the
lack of river crossings adds considerably to both the time and distance,
however the route they would have taken was still within half a mile of
the end of my road, and I'd have gladly walked - to avoid the scenic
tour of Beeston and that taxi again.

In fact, I cut my evening in London short and caught the last through
train, because the bustitution was planned; but it could just as easily
have been a surprise bustitution resulting from some sort of incident.]
--
Roland Perry

On 24/11/2012 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:09:08 on Fri, 23 Nov
2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

As for running a faux-local-bus-service, I doubt if anyone on such buses
wants to be there. They'd rather be on the train that was cancelled.

It's ridiculous to expect someone might be hovering at the railway
station on the off-chance of a bustitution that might go past their
house.

Not if they are aware if the bustitution and know the route it will
have to take.

If they are aware, but in order to be aware they either need to be
hovering at the railway station waiting for the off-chance that the OHL
will collapse, or monitoring the ToC's twitter feed so they can rush to
the railway station rather than their regular bus stop.

These are extreme corner cases.

Well those seem to be your favourites.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:06:05 on Fri, 23 Nov
2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

I believe bus replacement services have designated "bus stops",

No, they just stop on a country road somewhere near the station.

As far as you know, ever read a rail-replacement service contract?

If all the station has is a bit of passing country road, that's what they
need to use. The contract won't require the bus operator to install a bus
stop. Indeed, they don't even seem to require the bus driver to know where
the station is - on one trip I had to stand next to the driver and give
him directions.

But there are official bus stops in the High Street.

But the RRS bus is not authorised to use them.

Authorised by whom?

The RSS is not authorised, by virtue of the operator not possessing a valid
licence for the RSS to operate a local bus service, which would be obtained
from the Area Traffic Commissioners, at six weeks' notice and payment of a
fee to the Traffic Commissioners, to stop ANYWHERE for the purpose of
setting down (or picking up) passengers, other than at the places and times
specified in the Rail Replacement Contract that has been negotiated between
the Rail Operator and the Bus Operator. A bus operating other than within
the terms of its operating licence may well be regarded as uninsured by the
insurer, as it is not being used in a legal manner at the time. In practice,
a claim might be met by the Insurer - but the insurer would then chase the
operator for recompense. And the company would then chase the driver for
recompense - which would probably lead to termination of employment.

If the bus operator wanted the RSS to be able to provide a Local Bus Service
at the same time as the RSS he is supposed to be providing, he would have to

a) give six weeks notice to the TCs
b) pay a fee
c) negotiate with the Rail Operator to provide a local bus service congruent
with the Rail Operator's service ( and the contract price would have been
adjusted appropriately)
d) ensure he had provided seating capacity to carry both the rail passengers
(who would frequently fill one or more vehicles) and the anticipated numbers
who might reasonably wish to board en-route
e) devised a fares structure which would include the carriage of OAP at
"free travel" rates with reimbursement from the Local Authority
f) run the bus at the times stated in the Timetable whether or not it was
actually needed at the time stated - train comes in late? no chance of the
connecting service waiting for its passengers. Service bus must depart
punctually, otherwise the operator could find himself hauled up in front of
the TCs on an Inquiry.
g) Loads more that I can't be arsed to consider, as what has been provided
is sufficient to indicate its impracticalities.

In short - if you want the benefits of being able to get off at your local
bus stop, you get on a bus service that is licenced to do so. It matters not
a fishes tit by what means you arrive at the starting point of such a
journey - be it train, plane, walk, camel, or whatever. It also matters not
a fishes tit whether or not it passes your house on the way.

If you want the benefits of being able to travel from A to B by train, get
on a train. The train company will take you from A to B. Occasionally, in
the case of an emergency or planned engineering works, they will use a bus
or a taxi for part or all of the journey. In the case of planned
engineering works, you will have had the opportunity to be informed about
them before you start your journey. Notices are displayed at railway
stations about such works, but certain users of Usenet probably take as much
notice of these as they take of other posters' explanations on Usenet. But
the Rail Company will still facilitate your conveyance from A to B. How you
get from B to your own home is up to YOU and is your responsibilty to
arrange it.

Is that clear?

I'll save you a post...

Thought not.