Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:39:12 on Sat, 24
Nov 2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

"Second tree from the station" then. Still a muddy grass verge.

But an official muddy grass verge.

I'd love to see the risk assessment that said it was safer for the
passengers than a lit bus stop on the High Street.

The risk assessment says it is a safe enough place, and is the closest
bus accessible place to the officially sanctioned stopping point for the
train that the bus is replacing. In these circumstances, it is the only
legal stopping point for the bus. On these services, from the legal
point of view, you are not on a bus, you are on a train, so, barring
instructions to the contrary from the TOC, you must be dropped at the
station, or as close to the station as is physically possible with the
vehicle in use.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
19:11:06 on Sat, 24 Nov 2012, Portsmouth Rider
remarked:
A bus that is on Rail Work must stop at the place that is on the
Con-tract,
and must not stop at any oth-er place to set down or pick up.

Why? They aren't in competition with local buses, and it's safer to drop
someone at a lit bus stop on the High Street than an unlit muddy grass
verge that just happens to be nearer the station.

Head - desk The only vehicle that is allowed to stop at a bus stop is
a bus on a service licenced to use that stop. This need not include all
buses using the road, and, say, a number 13 bus may not use a stop which
is licenced only for the number 8 service.

This has nothing to do with your perception of safety or your
convenience, it has to do with legality and the law of contract. If you
are driving a car and stop on a bus stop, you can be prosecuted for
obstructing the highway *and* obstructing the bus stop, even if there is
no box on the road marking the extent of the stop. A sign (In some cases
a sign on the other side of the road) is sufficient evidence of a stop.
The rail replacement bus is also subject to these restrictions, and is
not allowed to stop there as it is not a service registered or licenced
to use that stop. In some cases, authority can be obtained by the TOC to
use a stop, but for numerous reasons which have been explained, this is
not always done.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
15:35:23 on Sat, 24 Nov 2012, Portsmouth Rider
remarked:

But it's not a local bus service. It's an emergency bustitution.

Which is exactly what at least three posters to this thread have been
telling you for the last few days.

Unless the bus stop has a prohibition on "Stopping", other than local
buses (there are some of those, but generally only in very congested
city centres) then anyone can stop to let a passenger out.

As a car driver, I don't need to register with the authorities weeks in
advance to stop there.

If you stop on a bus stop with a private car, you can be prosecuted for
obstructing the stop and obstructing the highway. Read the Highway Code.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 24/11/2012 22:47, John Williamson wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:42:31 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, John Williamson remarked:

Clearing snow can leave you responsible for the consequences if you
do it and don't leave a safe surface.

Not since the "Snow Code" was introduced two years ago.

The Snow Code is not statute law, and it is not common law either. It is
advice to the public by an official body, that is all. The law has not
changed in any way because of it,

Because the "law" preventing people clearing snow never actually existed
in the first place. That's the point.

The Snow Code even states that you can
be held responsible for the consequences if you do not do a good enough
job,

No it doesn't.

Bus drivers can be held responsible if they deliberately run someone
over. Does that mean that bus drivers shouldn't ever drive buses?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 24/11/2012 09:36, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 24/11/2012 09:24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:06:05 on Fri, 23
Nov 2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

I believe bus replacement services have designated "bus stops",

No, they just stop on a country road somewhere near the station.

As far as you know, ever read a rail-replacement service contract?

If all the station has is a bit of passing country road, that's what
they need to use. The contract won't require the bus operator to install
a bus stop.

It will require them to stop at a designated place.

Indeed, they don't even seem to require the bus driver to
know where the station is - on one trip I had to stand next to the
driver and give him directions.

I had to do that in Canada! The Canadian was turned short of Toronto
and we were bused[1] up to Capreol to join it. The bus driver didn't
know where the station was but being sat higher than him I could see the
top of a loco over the fences and was able to direct him in.

Some time ago I was on a bus replacement bus(!) where the driver asked
whether he was supposed to turn off and go through all the tiny
villages, or stick to the main road which now bypasses them all.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 24/11/2012 14:28, Portsmouth Rider wrote:

d) ensure he had provided seating capacity to carry both the rail passengers
(who would frequently fill one or more vehicles) and the anticipated numbers
who might reasonably wish to board en-route


f) run the bus at the times stated in the Timetable

Should they not be doing these anyway?

I appreciate some bus companies come with an "if you or your journey
mattered you wouldn't be using us, and most of you aren't paying anyway"
mentality, but aren't these replacement buses pseudo-trains?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 24/11/2012 19:11, Portsmouth Rider wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:31:37 on Sat, 24 Nov
2012, Graeme Wall remarked:

But it's not a local bus service. It's an emergency bustitution.

So therefore it can't use the local bus stops.

But neither is it prohibited. Unless the bit of road in question has a
sign saying "No Stopping - except local buses", which they don't.

You seem to have some difficulty in comprehension. The prohibition in
stopping at unofficial bus stops is nothing to with Road Traffic signs or
law, but everything to with the licence issued by the Traffic Commissioners
(or not issued, as the case may be.)

A bus that is on a Lo-cal Bus Ser-vice can stop at a Bus Stop, In fact it
must do so if a man on the bus wants it to, to get off. Or if a man wants to
get on the bus.

A bus that is on Rail Work must stop at the place that is on the Con-tract,
and must not stop at any oth-er place to set down or pick up.

Now I appreciate that three of those words run into two sysllables, but I
have hyphenated them for you to make it easier for you to understand. The
rest are monosyllabylic and so should not present you with too much of a
problem.

So can we get Bor-is and Ke-n banged up because replacement buses use
the normal bus stops at one of my local stations?


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 24/11/2012 23:01, John Williamson wrote:

This has nothing to do with your perception of safety or your
convenience, it has to do with legality and the law of contract.

So, just be 100% clear - bus companies consider a contract to be more
important than the safety of their passengers?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Arthur Figgis wrote:
So can we get Bor-is and Ke-n banged up because replacement buses use
the normal bus stops at one of my local stations?


No, because they are certain to be the TOC authorised stopping points
for those services, and approved by the Powers That Be under agreements
made prior to the replacement service operating, often *years* before
the service operated. There are plans for this sort of thing in place at
all the TOC offices and these are drawn up in conjunction with the
authorities, and in the case of London, all these are known about and
have to be registered with TfL.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 24/11/2012 23:01, John Williamson wrote:

This has nothing to do with your perception of safety or your
convenience, it has to do with legality and the law of contract.

So, just be 100% clear - bus companies consider a contract to be more
important than the safety of their passengers?

Risk assessments will have been performed to check that the approved
stop meets safety guidelines, so there is no unacceptable risk to safety.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.